Proper Puna problem (auto-related)

[dobanion]

The fact that a car with front discs and rear drums is stated to need "all new brakes" is suspect. Brake wear between disc/drum and front/rear is usually profound. Most brake force is applied to the front, so it's common, almost standard, that the fronts are gone long before the rears need attention. If someone "inspected" it and didn't show any wear marks or anything like that and tells you it all needs changing, they are probably pulling your leg or at the least exaggerating.

Don't know why the lines or master cylinder would need changing either. If they aren't leaking, they are fine. Ain't broke, don't fix. So many shops just love to replace parts for the hell of it.

I mean I haven't seen your car myself, but I'd be willing to bet you could buy a $100-$200 set of pads and rotors and get the car fixed in about a hour by anybody who knows what they are doing and has the basic tools for the job. Back in the days when rotors were expensive you'd inspect them for wear and even have them resurfaced, but they are so cheap now I always do pads and rotors together.

[Durian Fiend]

Well, that’s what it was. We scheduled the repair with Goodyear, let them have the vehicle for several days as we had other vehicles to use and that’s what they charged us. 

I suppose I could have argued to pay more?

ETA: To be fair, my husband's 2012 F150 had a similar complete brake job done in February of this year at Orchid Isle Ford to the tune of $1,978.91.

As Obie mentioned, the make/model and complexity of the vehicle differs greatly - i.e. - anti lock brakes, 4 wheel disc vs disc/drum etc., etc.

Did you get a receipt with a breakdown of parts and labor?  I just looked up master cylinder, it's about $110.  Rotors are $80 a piece.  Drums would probably be about the same and calipers aren't cheap.  Neither are brake hoses for that matter.

[punikahakaiferret]

I am going with the original quote I got, and received reassurance that they won't replace anything unnecessarily, in order to keep the costs on the lower end, tho I suspect it is indeed going to need all "4 corners" done in full. It's tough to budget for these big expenses, even though obviously brakes are not something to skimp on, I just didn't want to get taken advantage of.

Definitely looking forward to be able to day trip again (like to the volcano!), as I've been putting this off trying to find a good price.

As for Brodie, you couldn't pay me enough to even set foot near that place. If I took it there they'd be wanting to charge me $3000 and try to tell me I need new tires as well. And shocks, struts, muffler bearings, blinker fluid, etc., etc., etc.

Soooo many horror stories! Even trying to hold people's vehicles hostage under the auspice of it "not being safe to drive"? Ugh.

[Obie]

Here's a Youtube video that shows the job. 17 minutes a wheel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJIAobzjxDc

Those rotors in the video looked fine but they are so cheap I would just replace them anyway and Hawaii is an extreme rust area so they are not coming off as easy as in the video.

[HiloJulie]

"Did you get a receipt with a breakdown of parts and labor?"

So, to be clear and let's recap:

2001 Ford Escape
71,000 original miles
Purchased in Sun City, AZ new in 2001, driven to Long Beach Port, shipped to Hilo in 2001.

Vehicle is in immaculate condition - it has been and is always car port kept dry and clean.

The only brake work done since purchase has been one set of new pads only (and brake fluid flush) about 10 - 12 years ago when vehicle had about 40,000 miles.

Vehicle use has been some years driven less than 300 miles to other years driven 3 to 4,000 miles. All paved road driving except the one mile trek each way in and out of the Acres from/to our home - but as relatively smooth for the Acres roads as can be.

So, it was at my direction to do the brake job that was done considering the car is going on 24 years old as well as one rear wheel was beginning to "hang" after not driving it a few days causing it to momentarily "skid" until it "broke" loose.

Receipt shows (using exact terms):

1 - TRQ DISC/DRUM COMPLETE KIT, INCL, CTD ROTORS (2) DRUMS (2) CER PADS (4) REAR SHOES (4) CALIP (2) WHL CYL (2) LNE HOS FRT (2) LNE HOS REAR (2) HRD WR KIT FRT (2) HRD WR KIT REAR (2) - $144.29

1 - TRQ MST CYL - $48.12

1 - BRK FLD - $25.00

1 - LABOR CHRG - $215.00

TOTAL: $432.21

LESS 10% DISC: <$43.22>

SUB TOTAL: $389.17

TAX: $34.55

TOTAL: $406.44

To be further clear, my understanding of the manufacturing company known as "TRQ" that made the brake products that were used on my Escape are of the "middle of the road" on the terms of quality and performance. If I had wanted OEM Ford parts - the price was about double that as to what it was using the "TRQ" parts.

I do have say that the 10% discount was due to an offer from the purchase of 4 new tires prior to the brake job for the vehicle, so I apologize if that mislead anyone.

[Durian Fiend]

"Did you get a receipt with a breakdown of parts and labor?"

So, to be clear and let's recap:

2001 Ford Escape
71,000 original miles
Purchased in Sun City, AZ new in 2001, driven to Long Beach Port, shipped to Hilo in 2001.

Vehicle is in immaculate condition - it has been and is always car port kept dry and clean.

The only brake work done since purchase has been one set of new pads only (and brake fluid flush) about 10 - 12 years ago when vehicle had about 40,000 miles.

Vehicle use has been some years driven less than 300 miles to other years driven 3 to 4,000 miles. All paved road driving except the one mile trek each way in and out of the Acres from/to our home - but as relatively smooth for the Acres roads as can be.

So, it was at my direction to do the brake job that was done considering the car is going on 24 years old as well as one rear wheel was beginning to "hang" after not driving it a few days causing it to momentarily "skid" until it "broke" loose.

Receipt shows (using exact terms):

1 - TRQ DISC/DRUM COMPLETE KIT, INCL, CTD ROTORS (2) DRUMS (2) CER PADS (4) REAR SHOES (4) CALIP (2) WHL CYL (2) LNE HOS FRT (2) LNE HOS REAR (2) HRD WR KIT FRT (2) HRD WR KIT REAR (2) - $144.29

1 - TRQ MST CYL - $48.12

1 - BRK FLD - $25.00

1 - LABOR CHRG - $215.00

TOTAL: $432.21

LESS 10% DISC: <$43.22>

SUB TOTAL: $389.17

TAX: $34.55

TOTAL: $406.44

To be further clear, my understanding of the manufacturing company known as "TRQ" that made the brake products that were used on my Escape are of the "middle of the road" on the terms of quality and performance. If I had wanted OEM Ford parts - the price was about double that as to what it was using the "TRQ" parts.

I do have say that the 10% discount was due to an offer from the purchase of 4 new tires prior to the brake job for the vehicle, so I apologize if that mislead anyone.

Thanks.  I remain dumbfounded by that super cheap price for parts.  On Amazon the TRQ brake kit for your vehicle is more than that without calipers or hoses. https://www.amazon.com/TRQ-Compatible-20...QYZQ5?th=1

I've never found a car part FS in Hilo/Puna that's less than seen on Amazon, so something seems fishy here!

For sure,  I wouldn't pay a premium for OEM Ford parts. 

So Ferret, how do you know your brakes are shot?  We need to hear the story.  You might just need pads since your car isn't very old.   

My '95 pickup still has the original brake hoses for the front calipers. I should probably replace them, especially since they look cracked and well worn. 

[HiloJulie]

"I remain dumbfounded by that super cheap price for parts..."

I discussed doing the brake job with Goodyear when I was having the new tires put on a month or so before. I was also somewhat taken back at how relatively cheap their quote was considering what my husband's almost similar brake job cost on his 2012 F150 - but considered well that was thru Orchid Isle Ford, and they used OEM Ford parts, and it is 4-wheel discs and has the anti-lock system.

The guy did emphasize the TRQ parts as "being the best bang for the buck" - as well as when I took it into them I told them that I was in no hurry whatsoever for the car - in fact I even said "this is the car to work on when you have nothing to do" as well as telling them they could keep it as long as they needed to - so who knows - maybe they did screw up on the pricing - or maybe some other deal happened - but I must say - the car brakes nice and straight and drives like a champ!

Plus, it sounds like now that I got a really good deal.

Maybe I am "cute" after all?!?

[punikahakaiferret]

Last had just pads put on the front in mid '21. The vehicle belonged to my folks (now back on the mainland, in their late 80s and my dad doesn't remember when last he had anything done before that). Vehicle has ~140k miles.

Got safety inspection done about 1 month ago at Paul's, was told the rear brakes looked pretty bad (and was asked if we had someone already who would do them). Since then, have increasingly heard the lovely, lovely grinding scraping sound. Ick.

So...*shrug*. Gonna have the brakes looked at and see what-all needs to be replaced.

There ya have it.

[HiloJulie]

"So...*shrug*. Gonna have the brakes looked at and see what-all needs to be replaced."

"There ya have it."

Best of luck punikahakaiferret.

May your repairs be as economical as possible.

And still be able to have a Merry Christmas!

[leilanidude]

4-wheel discs and has the anti-lock system
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95% of all vehicles since 2000 have disc brakes front and rear. They are easier in most cases to work on than the old, drum style.

Having anti-lock brakes has nothing to do with replacing pads/rotors/sensors.

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(and brake fluid flush) about 10 - 12 years ago
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Being on a volcanic island, not flushing brake fluid every couple years can lead to a disaster.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic - meaning that it absorbs water and what that means is that as the brake fluid gets contaminated over time, your brake lines begin to rust from the inside out. Being on a steep downhill and finding out that your brake line suddenly bursts from corrosion, is not a great thing to have happen.

The National Park Service replaces pads/rotors/sensors every single year on all their vehicles along with annual brake fluid flushes. This may sound extreme but the volcanic gasses literally eat the rotors just from being exposed to the gasses.

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2013 Kia Soul
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Folks that you texted about doing the work aren't licensed and don't want to buy parts, mark it up to account for their time and show the money outflow/inflow as they aren't going to pay taxes on that profit. They also don't want to deal with incorrect parts, warranty any parts, etc. If they just charge labor, any parts issue is back on you.

Any semi-competent person can do front pads/rotors on that vehicle in under an hour provided there isn't much rust on the caliper or rotor bolts. Since we are on a volcanic island with vog and salt water present, I would also order new caliper and rotor bolts. An extra $20 now can save a lot of issues the next time around.

If I wasn't at the Florida house right now I would offer to do them for you. I have a full shop including air tools, outfitted in the back garage. I like to do most of my own mechanic work.