Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs

[KPHawaii]

"Those who are not happy with the agreements they made should either suck it up or move."

And I TOTALLY agree, My 2 Cents. NOW we are back on track with this post.

What the County and State have done to substandard subdivisions on Hawaii island, is a MESS. The County allowed the subdivisions, which did not even pass the County's own requirements at the time, to qualify for public offering. And then, when mainland owners (even WAY back) started to moan about the inadequacies, the County and Courts came together, whereby the County was let off in taking any responsibility for their negligence "in perpetuity," and the courts fashioned a "fix" for the inadequacies by stiffing substandard subdivision owners.

And NOW, that same mind-set that is unhappy with substandard subdivision inadequacies and wants "so much more," is once again pushing for MORE control and MORE money.

As I have said, what is happening in HPPOA should be of concern to many other substandard subdivision owners. Just as PHH (now HPPPOA) did in 1984, HPPOA is trying to "lead the way" so that other substandard subdivisions can follow (or be made to).

Unfortunately, it's called progress, the same as TV, cars, phones, cell phones, grocery stores and "so much more". Receiving mail is an essential service. Having it convenient is called progress. Where would we be today without "so much more"? We certainly wouldn't be sitting on our computers or phones on PunaWeb. We wouldn't be driving to the grocery store. We wouldn't have our kids in beautiful schools. Really, who doesn't want progress? What progress is acceptable and who determines what progress is acceptable? Who does not want "so much more"? Why is it so hard for some to see that "so much more" is needed?

Is anyone afraid of sending out yet another survey to our owners to see if they would be willing to have about $100 of their road fees go toward mail service for everyone in the park? Oh wait, is Hawaiian Paradise Park really a park?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There are other ways to correct past wrongs.

I have the impression there is only one other acceptable way.

[HiloJulie]

Leave Hawaiian Acres alone.  It comes back to contracts and agreements.  Some people in HA bought their property understanding the terms and conditions and are happy with it.  Those who are not happy with the agreements they made should either suck it up or move.  They should not be trying to change the agreements that they made after the fact, and worse, they should not be trying to change everyone else’s agreements after the fact along with theirs.

This has to go down as the absolute BEST post on PunaWeb ever!

Hat's off to you 2 cents!

I would also say, that for those, who have tried, some relentlessly to as My 2 cents so eloquently says "...not be trying to change the agreements that they made after the fact, and worse, they should not be trying to change everyone else’s agreements after the fact along with theirs."  have not fared to well at their attempts and in fact, their attempts at trying it could be described as dismal failures.

Yes, leave Hawaiian Acres alone.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

leave Hawaiian Acres alone.

HiloJulie,
I think you need to unveil another sign! Perhaps:

Welcome!
Leave Hawaiian Acres Alone

Then after some years go by and a name change:

Welcome!
To Entropy Acres

[Patricia]

"They should not be trying to change the agreements that they made after the fact, and worse, they should not be trying to change everyone else’s agreements after the fact along with theirs."

Yet, this is EXACTLY what Paradise Hui Hanalike did and now HPPOA just wants to do MORE of the same.

[HiloJulie]

HiloJulie you say that you as an attorney and in your opinion she has no legal argument. Like you, there are thousands of attorneys some may agree with you and others will not. That is why we have a Court system to determine whether or not there is a legal argument and it would be decided there, but you already know that right because you are an attorney. Just curious as to what kind of attorney/legal field that you practiced, in. Not prying just curious and if you don't want to respond that's cool too.
You definitely have the right to believe or have your opinions. However that being said it carries no weight and is absolutely nothing other than that, your opinion.
By the way I'm just posting this as an addition to this conversation and like you it's JMO, so I wouldn't consider it stalking.
Everyone have a great weekend.

I am happy to tell you my legal profession was in the field of copyright law, primarily in the musical/entertainment industry, but also did represent some corporate entities as well.

I am a bit surprised that you would ask that, as I have posted what I do in numerous posts before and given, as I see here with Post 348, that you are able to go back and be able to quote only a select few of my posts in an attempt at some type of veiled message is quite ironic.

At any event, as it applies, I, as do you, as does Patricia, as does everyone else “definitely have the right to believe or have your (their) (mine) opinions. However that being said it carries no weight and is absolutely nothing other than that, your (their) (mine) opinion.”

And yes, thanks for adding to the conversation, I haven’t a clue as to your meaning of the reference to stalking but have a great weekend as well!

HiloJulie,
I think you need to unveil another sign! Perhaps:
Welcome!
Leave Hawaiian Acres Alone

And with GREAT fanfare too!

I love it!

[Patricia]

"They should not be trying to change the agreements that they made after the fact, and worse, they should not be trying to change everyone else’s agreements after the fact along with theirs."

Yet, this is EXACTLY what Paradise Hui Hanalike did and now HPPOA just wants to do MORE of the same.

Many HPP Owners never agreed to being HPPOA members. How could they? HPPOA never told Owners, as they are supposed to, that owners do not have to be members.  

Some HPP owners NEVER agreed to fund HPPOA (PHH) for road maintenance. None if this is in their deeds or contracts. 

Yet, ALL of the above has happened (owners being MADE members, HPP Owners being forced to pay road maintenance) because PHH (now HPPOA) sued HPP Owners. 

HPPOA whines about the lawsuits. But they started them. Not only did HPPOA start them, they have used Owner Road Fee Money to pay for them. 

How many other substandard subdivisions, in Puna Hawaii have experienced this same overreach? 

How many will?

[HiloJulie]

"Then after some years go by and a name change:"

Welcome!
To Entropy Acres

Sorry, HOTPE, that was the name of Hawaiian Acres the day after this brochure came out:

   

[KPHawaii]

"They should not be trying to change the agreements that they made after the fact, and worse, they should not be trying to change everyone else’s agreements after the fact along with theirs."

Yet, this is EXACTLY what Paradise Hui Hanalike did and now HPPOA just wants to do MORE of the same.

Many HPP Owners never agreed to being HPPOA members. How could they? HPPOA never told Owners, as they are supposed to, that owners do not have to be members.  

Some HPP owners NEVER agreed to fund HPPOA (PHH) for road maintenance. None if this is in their deeds or contracts. 

Yet, ALL of the above has happened (owners being MADE members, HPP Owners being forced to pay road maintenance) because PHH (now HPPOA) sued HPP Owners. 

HPPOA whines about the lawsuits. But they started them. Not only did HPPOA start them, they have used Owner Road Fee Money to pay for them. 

How many other substandard subdivisions, in Puna Hawaii have experienced this same overreach? 

How many will?

I've always acknowledged that your research is solid, but the way you present it could use some improvement. It seems like you're suggesting that HPPOA has deliberately ignored court orders, which isn't accurate. If you adjust your approach, you might find more people willing to listen.

Should the court determine that HPPOA has violated court orders, it will finally bring closure. If not, we can move forward with the assurance that everything is in order. Are you prepared to accept the outcome, regardless of what it is? How do you envision reversing 50 years of actions?

I haven't observed HPPOA "complaining" about any lawsuits. In fact, some members are relieved that these issues might finally be resolved. They haven't initiated these lawsuits themselves; they've always sought advice from corporate attorneys and acted accordingly. While attorneys can make mistakes, the purpose of having corporate legal counsel is to follow their guidance. For the board to be covered under D&O insurance, they must adhere to this advice. That's the standard procedure. Yes, they have used road fees to cover legal expenses, which is also standard practice.

Frivolous lawsuits are common. When an attorney is also a member, it's easy to file a lawsuit for any reason they deem appropriate, even without all the facts. Do opposing parties ever have all the facts? I doubt it.

[Patricia]

"Welcome!
To Entropy Acres"

Love the brochure.

I used to have a copy of the original public offering that Watumull put out for Hawaiian Paradise Park (I passed it onto others, along with all the other documents I used to have). 

Hawaiian Acres' brochure puts Watumull's offer to shame (Watumull's was just a long list of what is not provided- as in everything). Still, he did have a traveling group of promoters who dressed in grass skirts, set-up tiki bars, and held events to lure interested parties in. And it worked!