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Rob,
At the end of the day, you're exactly right. As I stated before I think the problem there (as best I can understand it from here)is simple sneak thieves or thieves of opportunity.
I don't think guns are the answer to these type crimes. Proactive things such as dogs locks etc.. are only a band aid or quick fix.
I don't want to bring the gun laws from TX to the BI. Truth be known, I don't want to live in a place that has to have those type laws. I'd much rather live in a place like Puna where violent crime is much less prevalent than the mainland.
It kind humors me that this, sneak thieving, is the topic of concern as opposed to murder and rape etc..
I posted some statistics that showed Hawaii has some of the lowest murders by gun statistics in the US, but nobody really noticed them.
Take care,
dave
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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People have the right to guns, dogs and fences. I won't say they don't. But that approach is one where a person defines his or her interests as extending to the property line and not much beyond. That is an approach that is futile to my mind.
If you want to stop crime on your lot then get a sign, and a gun, and a dog, and an alarm system and a....., and a......, and a......
If you want to stop crime in your community you have to start thinking as a community and not a bundle of self interests.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Hi, Rob,
I think highly of your approach to the problem. I think that is the best way to think. In neighborhoods, guns are a bad idea. And I think I get the kind of 'seige' mentality you are probably thinking of when people talk about having fences, dogs and guns. That's not good for the community nor for the mental health of the protectee.
But it's so heart-breaking to be burglarized. Not only is your personal space invaded; it is also frightening. When I was burglarized I lost sentimental, one-of-a-kind items which I can never replace. I lost 'once in a lifetime' possessions and my young son lost his Christmas presents from his grandparents. We didn't have a lot to steal, but everything we did have of value was gone for good.
I knew my neighbors well, but what good is a neighbor if they can't see your house or aren't home? It doesn't help to have a strong sense of community if someone has a son who has gotten hooked on drugs or fallen in with the wrong people--or if a 'bad' guy drives into your neighborhood looking for an easy place to rob. It doesn't help to have a good police force if it takes them 45 minutes to get to your home. Your stuff is gone forever and you never have the sense of security in your home that you had before being ripped off. Besides, burglary is always a low priority crime--it happens so often and there is almost no chance of finding the perpetrator. The police have a lot to do.
It was never my idea to have dogs or guns, but the dogs in particular have made me feel more secure living as I do, miles from neighbors and law enforcement. I don't have either with the intent of protecting property--I think my friend's intent was always only to protect myself from harm. I would have the dogs anyhow, for companionship.
I think that, in the best of all worlds, using positive thinking and community action and involvement is definitely the way to go. But in the 'real' world with all the problems of modern society, I will also have good locks and a dog. I've heard that a barking dog is the best deterrent to burglars. I also might have that gun -- on the off chance that some bad guy decides to enter my house (where I am alone) on some dark night out here where I have no chance to be heard by a neighbor or get police help. At least I would have a chance against him.
My parents never had a fence around their home in 40 years. As the neighborhood grew and time passed, all the lots were built on and all the other houses had fences so that everyone 'cut' through our yard which made my mother feel insecure as she got older. I finally fenced her backyard so that I had a place for my dogs while I took care of her. She immediately felt better. Times change and so, unfortunately, do we. When I was a kid I don't think we ever locked our doors except when we went on vacation. Does anyone do that now? I think that preventing people from robbing you is good--you are helping them keep their karma good. ; )
april
april
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As usual, good points April.
Rob,
What I think we're saying is that you're correct in that it's important to be active in the community and proactive against crime as a neighborhood.
But to put all the respnsibility on those efforts alone would be IMO negligent. I assume that you have locks. And I assume that you use them. This is taking personal responsibility for your property.
Granted, when you pay taxes you deserve certain services from the entity that you pay those taxes too.
Even if your nrighborhood is gated and has a crime watch you still have some responsibilty to protect your family and property. That protection could be as little as locking your door or as much buying a tank.
Every body needs to take responsibility to some extent. Again I agree that the best answer is to fight these issues as a community, but to throw all the responsibilty on to a community effort is negligent, IMO.
There's no doubt that in a perfect world we would not have to worry about these things. But this isn't a perfect world.
The further from city services one lives the more responsibility one has. We live in the country and I, being involved in the local EMS, am aware of the long response time. We have only one deputy for a large area. We've asked for more and we continue to address the problem. Meanwhile we still have to lock our gate when we leave.
In Texas, we have the responsibility to take our keys from our car, no matter if your running into the gas station to pay or leaving it at the airport. It's against the law to leave your keys in your car.
Of course it's illegal to steel cars and the police/sheriff department are trained to keep thieves from stealing cars but it is the responsibilty of the owner to not make it any easier on the thief.
Take care,
dave
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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I don't know where you get the impression that I suggest one doesn't own a lock or use one. In a society where people are not involved in their community you better have a lock I guess.
Who cares about what goes on in Texas? That will likely upset any Texans but Hawaii is not Texas and doesn't want to be. Most everyone here sincerely hopes that mainland attitudes don't take over. Mainland attitude is where your interests stop at your front gate.
I have locks and sometimes forget to use them. Away from home for two weeks at a time I don't have too much to worry about. I have neighbors that I know and that know me and we look out for each other. The only attempted burglery I experienced occured at 3 am and someone tried to steal a small propane tank. A neighbor spotted him and, at 3 am, chased his ass down the road.
Locks keep the honest people out. Your best security is your neighborhood.
Buy all the guns you want. They are of very limited value.
I agree a dog is better companionship and protection - if you treat the animal right.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Real nice,
You spent more time on Texas than I did. Mine was a point on responsibility, yours was a rant.
Yeah yeah.. nobody wants the mainland there. Sorry, not relevant to the discussion. But since you seem think along those lines, when pressed. All I have is my neighbors and yes we look after one another. Some just have locks, some have guns, all have dogs and all take personal responsibility just to different levels.
But your point is well received, I'm from Texas so I no nothing of personal responsibility or rural life.
Take care,
dave
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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The mainland is so vast and so varied that it's impossible to make a derogatory implication about the mainland and not find many, many exceptions. There are great similarities between East Hawaii and most of the rural mainland. The crime problem in both arise primarily from ice. So much for Global Warming.
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If mention of Texas bothers anyone feel free to substitute Ohio or Connecticut or whatever state comes to mind.
I did rant a bit because I really dislike it when one point I make is somehow taken to exclude any other. Take all the personal responsibility you want.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Rob,
I totally agree with you in that crime needs to be attacked at the neighborhood and/or community level.. And like I said before, I don't want to move somewhere that that is not paramount. But Rob, try as I may, I just can't bring myself to shoot these big brown eyed labs of mine.  Thanks for the forum.
Take care,
dave
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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I think an underlying message I am trying to deliver is this:
The Big Island is considered the most remote locale on earth. It can get real lonely out here real quick. This is not the mainland where, if a major hurricane strikes, massive amounts of aid arrive overnight (like New Orleans?). Dock strike, oil crises, natural or terrorist disaster? take your pick. The volcano is the least of our worries.
Like it or not we are all in this island life together. Ya can't hitch hike home to mom. So becoming one with your community means a lot more here than it might elsewhere. Guns might work until you run out of ammo. Then what?
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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