HPP Robbery

[Chunkster]

The "community spirit" here seems to be unbelievable leniency when it comes to crime. Every few days we see court scenes on TV where weeping families of the perpetrators make a pitch for the judge to go easy on violent criminals. They often get their way, too. Prosecutors actually make public statements condemning lenient sentences every week. The prisons here are overcrowded and new ones get consistently stopped by neighborhood groups. So a lot of prisoners get sent to the mainland, and some of the judges are reluctant to hand down stiff sentences because of the "hardship" of being incarcerated 3000 miles from home.

And then there are the local police. Yes they have historically been underpaid (big raise coming, though) and understaffed. That does not excuse their phenomenally casual attitude toward property crimes. I have friends who have been burglarized and were told by the cops to basically expect nothing to be done about it and that even if someone was caught, they probably would not do time.

[Kelena]

Yes -- the looting in New Orleans was from a certain group: A group of people who had been left in a drowning, sweltering city to die for five days. When the government no longer exists, what results is anarchy.

Bush has successfully dismantled and demonized the government and handed it --and all the taxpayer money-- to the corporations. What you get are people drowning on rooftops....and people whose response to theivery is not call 9/11, but lock and load.

[Dave M]

Ok.. Here's the plan, we're going to make our point and not go off on a rant toward Bush and/or the current administration.

As much as would really hand the whole Katrina/Rita thing on Bush, the truth is that New Orleans and the Parish system of law is by far the most corrupt in the US.

New Orleans and the pending flood has been a cash cow for Louisiana for the last 50 years. The US government has poured cash into the levee, dam, and pump stations projects for years. They've even coruupted the Core of Engineers.. It's pitiful, and the people that counted on and voted for the elect there were the ones that paid the price.

This corruption started a long time before Dumb, Dumber and Dumbest took office in Washington. As for the lack of police, not true. There is un-questionable proof that they were there, they were stars in reels of surveillence footage, yep they had first rights on looting the malls (Whole malls)

Hell, I think one of them stole a bus... Speaking of Busses there were over 60 busses sitting in a dry yard that were never dispatched. The governor was incompetent. The storm rattling around in the Gulf for three days.

Now it is true that the Louisiana State Guard was well depleted du to the fact that George W. Bush sent them all out to settle a personal vendetta.

Turns out when Bush said "Leave No Child Behind" he ment behind for a field trip to Iraq with M-16.

Oh well I fell short on my plan. I did rant on Bush.... but, at least I had a plan!

Take care,
dave

Edited by - Dave M on 05/31/2007 07:57:50

[oink]

$.02
Based on my personal FL experiences, I have to say that radioguy's politically incorrect observations are on target. In addition to the initial crime, I can attest that a whole lot of FEMA money given for roof repairs and relocations was instead spent on crack, largely by the same group. FEMA paid for roofs are still covered with blue tarps. It appears to be a cultural issue that doesn't seem to be improving. I sure wish I had an answer for it.

Every person is personally responsible for the protection of home and family. Even in areas with very competent police, they rarely can get to the scene in time to prevent or stop an in-progress incident. It is also every persons responsibility to be involved in their community, both at the neighborhood level and in broader concerns. Politician must be forced to do their duty, and when possible we all need to do our part, community watch, mentoring etc.

Question: How does the Hawaii County police chief obtain and retain his position? Is it elected or appointed and if appointed, by who? (or is that whom?) I believe there is some sort of police commision. Is it appointed and does it have any power? Do the Hawaii County police generally process burglary scenes?

Rob,
Depending on what ails your back, and not advocating drug abuse, I have discovered that a good dose of valium before bed can sometimes result in awakening with a repaired back. I'm advocating a one night cure and not continued use of the drug. This works for spazzed, strained muscles and not ruptured discs etc.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

Edited by - oink on 05/30/2007 20:53:09

[Chunkster]

Oink, interesting that you mentioned the police chief. He recently got a raise to something in the area of $107,000 per year not because crime was down, recruiting was up, or efficiency was improved. He got the raise because some civil servants are paid more than he was getting, so he "felt bad" and petitioned some committee for a raise so he would feel better. The Mayor congratulated him on his good fortune. I am sure he is not elected, but I am not sure what the appointment process is.

[Kelena]

My rant was directly on point, and not a diversion from the topic. What happened --or didn't happen-- during the Katrina aftermath is directly related to the poor police service you receive in Puna. For years in America, we have been told that government is the problem. We have been told that so that global corporations with absolutely no loyalty to America can reduce wages, reduce health care availablity while raising health care costs, and can generally act unimpeded by restraints, regulations or oversight of any kind. The philosophy pushed on the American people has been this: government has no role to play in your lives and is, in fact, your enemy. We saw the end result of that philosophy in the Katrina Aftermath: A City of half a million Americans was left to drown. Not just any city, but a city of outsized cultural and historical significance (During the Katrina aftermath I was visiting a very small town in a remote area of Canada. In a town square some older gentleman in straw hats began playing "When the Saints Go Marching In" while everybody danced. I got the chills thinking about how far we had exported New Orleans culture.)

The Katrina aftermath was a disaster on such a scale that only the resources of the Federal Government could address it. Lousiana could not address it. Bush sat on his hands and later claimed that Blanco didn't say "Mother May I" or request Federal assistance in triplicate on the proper form. People drowned in their attics. Fats Domino's sat in his own feces for two weeks, awaiting rescue. We were embarrased before the entire world.

Any developed nation on Earth would have immediately sent food, supplies, rescue boats, doctors, and helicopters to the scene, and would have taken SOME steps to save the architectural treasures of New Orleans -- block upon block of 100 year old houses. There is no other developed nation on Earth that would have abandoned a city of half a million for weeks on end --weeks which are now turning to years. No levees for New Orleans yet (and don't give me the "its below sea level" propaganda -- so is Amsterdam.)

The corporate owned propaganda machine has an easy answer for all of this: the people could have got out on their own before the hurricane (look! yellow school buses! roll the loop again!) and we don't like the people that remained behind -- they are not worthy of rescue. We decline to rescue because we don't like the cut of their jib.

It's a sad day in America when we sit back, watching television and conclude en masse that it's okay if we don't rescue Americans stuck on their roofs in the hot sun, or wading through hip deep water full of sewage, gas and downed electrical lines because we don't like them or think they are unworthy or because we think they were stupid not to get out. That so many Americans reached such heartless conclusions is the result of pure corporate propaganda, and nothing else. This propaganda is ginned up by party-affiliated media outlets. The party supports the outlets, and the outlets support the party.

We have been told that government is the enemy. We saw how that played out when the Federal government declined to so much as lift a hand in the Katrina aftermath. The Federal Government DID however later pour BILLIONS on the Gulf Coast. Did the money go to people? No, it went to party-loyalist corporations like Brown Root and Kellogg who picked up trash at $95 an hour.

The moral of the story: a society that believes it is every man for himself, that believes that government is the problem, and can never offer a solution, that believes that the free market can and will address all ills is a society that is on the way down, and figuratively digging a hole to China (rivers polluted, cities with unbreathable air, factories pumping out poison food and plastic Jesuses).

Anarchic abandonment to the whims of free enterprise or organized (or even disorganized) crime is not a good way to run a society.

The lack of police protection in Puna (while the Federal Goverment spends millions looking for marijuana) is emblematic of the failure to insist on, participate in and pay for good government. It can be done without interfering with the relaxed way of life that pulls us to Puna in the first place.

We are --or should be-- the government. We need to get back to the biblical admonition that we are our brother's keepers. Malama pono.

[HiloHaole]

There's a Federal law, designed to protect states from invading Federal troops, that's been on the books for years and years and more years. It expressly bars the Federal government to call up Federal military and/or a state's National Guard without express request by the state. Since the La. Governor was asked by Bush if she needed help and she waited days to respond, is the reason the help came late. Now, the buses the Mayor didn't use to evacuate the area's another, disgraceful subject. His excuse was, "The bus drivers wouldn't have showed up anyway." Let's be a little less emotional and a lot more rational about human events.

[mella l]

Thank you Glen, these are interesting times for sure.

mella l

[oink]

Glen,
The government usually is not the enemy. Many just believe that most issues are best handled by local governments. If local government is incompetent it is ultimately the responsibility of the local populace. The local La. government was incompetent. The Bush administration definately could have handled it's responsibilities for the event better. He did error by appointing a political hack to head FEMA. However, the main failure was caused by incompetent state and local governments. They failed in their obligations in responding to the event. La. also should have controlled growth in the New Orleans area years before. I personally don't think my tax dollars should go to bail out someone who builds on a coastal barrier island. When you build on a barrier island you should know that one day it will be wiped clean. To some degree the same applies to New Orleans. That delta continues to subside and the sea level is rising. The ultimate outcome is a foregone conclusion unless you foresee New Orleans as a city in an underwater bubble dome. Having said all of that, I don't think the issue applies to Puna, unless you are referring to incompetent local governments. I personally think Big Island government is more competent than that of La. I also like local police better than the idea of just a state or national police as I think you were suggesting. They aren't always the most professional but they can be and they should be answering to local politicians. It is unfortunate that most all politicians, local state and national are dishonest but I guess they wouldn't get elected ef they weren't.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[aprild]

First of all: Rob, I am sorry to hear that you are having back trouble. I thought you sounded out of character. I suggest Rox, a chiropractor who is now practicing in Puna. I believe his office is in Pahoa. He worked a miracle for me. I have total faith in him. Massage is good, too, and he will probably suggest that as an adjunct to his treatment. (Hi, Pam.)

Glen: I hear your anger and I commiserate. I totally understand your frustration with what is happening in our country under this administration. Scott Ritter just wrote an excellent article that I think you (and others) will find pertinent.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/31/1554/

Although I'm not quite sure how we got to New Orleans, I think that anyone who exonerates the Federal Gov't on that one has not been paying close enough attention. Making excuses for the debacle (and blaming others)is very misguided, in my opinion. To me, it is obvious that the Feds should have stepped in if they saw that the State and City were overwhelmed. It is the usual way it is done if a State experiences a problem of any sort--FEMA was originated to handle these disasters and has historically done very well. There is a history behind their incompetence during Katrina that included firings of competent, experienced individuals, nepotism and more. If the Feds needed a formal invite, then a phone call informing the Guv and a Fax could have solved that formality in about 5 minutes. If I ran my business the way Katrina was handled, I'd be living in a cardboard box with lawsuits up the yin yang. Even Republicans are abhorred by FEMA's response.

It is pretty obvious that this administration is all about sucking up as much money (taxpayer dollars) into their own pockets and those of their friends and supporters--that includes everyone from Halliburton & Blackwater to the oil companies. I have seen this as typical business-as-usual under recent (since I can remember) Republican administrations. I'm not saying this doesn't also happen to a lesser extent under Democratic administrations as well (I'm sure there are abuses in nearly all governments), but the Dems believe in social programs and act to spread the money around and we all tend to do better under them because corporations are not elevated to such ethereal heights. (I do worry about the two party system, but that's another topic.)

This thread, in my mind, is kind of morphing with the thread on Green Harvest: in both, the issue of special interests has been highlighted as one of the problems we are dealing with in the struggle to get money and/or results that we, the People desire.

Don't you also see a general frustration with the fact that our governments at the Federal, State and Local levels are not representing and serving us? I feel like we are losing our VOICE and, thus, our DEMOCRACY. Or rather have already lost it.

Just as Clinton may have caused a cultural trend toward being more sexually liberal (allegations I have heard) this Presidency has made it o.k. to act in a totally self-serving, money-grasping way which is most often above and beyond the law (Abramson, Halliburton no-bid contracts, Ken Lay, billions unaccounted for in Iraq,et al, [not to mention other 'above the law' practices like wire-tapping, torture and blatant disregard of the Constitution].

The article I referenced earlier, an excerpt from a new book that can be found in Vanity Fair in this month's issue, about privatization addresses this issue. Scott Ritter's article speaks to the fact that we, the American people, have lost control of our government.

Rob exhorts us to get involved in government at a local level and you're right, Rob. Even at the local level I have seen 'bad guys' who have money and chutzpah take over Fort Bragg, CA, and do whatever the heck they want to in that small town. First, they burned down 5 or 6 historical buildings in town to mask a couple of insurance scams -- arsons on buildings they owned. One was the town library. Then they built a hotel (on the site of one fire--a building they owned and pretty obviously wanted gone) which totally ignored the building codes and stole the view of the ocean from the populace in a prominent spot on the bridge over the Noyo River. The City was threatened with a lawsuit that they could not afford to fight if they even asked them to change the roof to a more appropriate color. Money and the willingness to go beyond the law and bully others trumps democracy even at the local level.

Now I'm off-topic. Or am I?
BTW, thank you, Dave, for the compliments. I hope this post isn't too incendiary. I've really been working on putting forth my thoughts in a way that can be received by others, especially those who may not agree with me.





april