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quote:
I don't care what anyone says, repealing all these worker’s laws are what we need. If all these laws are supposed to be good for workers, than why do sweatshops have no problem recruiting workers? I personally think the US should eliminate the minimum wage and let economics dictate it from there. If your employer can find someone willing to replace you for only $4.00 an hour, work 60 hours without overtime, and isn't going to ask for health care, it should be the call of the company, not the government or unions. If you need to make more than the person willing to work for less, just work longer days, more days a week, and stop taking vacations or time off to be with the family. Or get a second or third job. But don’t make me have to pay higher prices for goods and service to support your need for health care, vacations, disability protection, sick days, and weekends off.
You sure do give a lot of credit to unions. As I stated earlier they were good in their time.
What I can't uunderstand is how my state, a state that has very little union activity ended up with all these things that you accredit to the unions.
I'm amazed that you left out civil rights.. Didn't unions give us that as well? NO they didn't. Nor did they give us all the things that you seem to attribute to them. The reason my state, without unions, enjoys most of the things on your list is because that list as well as many other labor related things is the result of those pesky pinko commie left wing Liberals.
You can post all the stuff you want on PUNA web but nothing again NOTHING will change the fact that Unions crippled the ability for many US companies to compete on an international level.
Toyota now has several plants here. Building cars and trucks and making a profit. The people that work there are very happy and well paid.
Who'd a thunk it...
Blessings,
dave
"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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Blaming Unions for the difficulties
Corporations face in doing business in the country way too simple. It fits and suits Right Wing Propaganda. Are Unions blameless? Of course not! But unilaterally blame Unions has the same answer - Of course not.
Why does no one question the incredible "compensation" corporate execs receive? And that includes the huge salaried execs in troubled industries. Everyone laughs about sarcastic remarks about Union breaks and inserting part "A" into part "B", but no one has anything to say about certain CEO's having a new car at company expense every year for himself and his wife.
The real monsters are Greed and Self Interest.
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David,
I'm not saying that the Unions are entirely to blame. "Crippling" yes but entirely probably not. I just think it's important to keep the discussion in the realm of reality. Left to Bob and Oink, they'd have us believe that the unions discovered pinicillin and electricity.
As for these CEOs and CFOs such as Tyco and Enron etc.. I agree with you, although I think if they were just getting a new car every year that would be OK. It's the 4th home down in Key Largo and the millions in off shore accounts that's the problem.
The reason no one questions these guys and their exorbunt(sp) salries is theat it's not just them. It (greed) goes all the way down to bord members and shareholders. It's all about the money. The bottom line is profits. That's just how capitalism works.
That's why walmart doesn't care if they sell junk. As long as they're showing a hefty profit..there it is.
(Tried to bring it back to topic 
Blessings,
dave
"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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I agree it's all about greed and self interest. However, let's break it down here.
Why do some CEOs, CFOs and CIOs make such healthy salaries, get huge bonuses and have their 4th vacation homes in Key Largo?
Because they can! This is capitolism at it's best! These positions are negotiated up front when corporate execs are tapped by the board to run these corporations. I don't begrudge anyone who had shown the talent, wherewithall or just plain "craziness" to get to a position like this. This is certainly not where I'd want to be.
Now...it's well known fact that corporations have a fudiciary duty to their shareholders. Lawsuits have been filed against corporations who have breached these duties.
Example...
"LOS ANGELES (AP) - Two Hilton Hotels Corp. shareholders are suing the hotel operator, claiming its management and directors breached their fiduciary duty to stockholders when they agreed to sell the company to a private equity firm for $20.1 billion, a figure the shareholders contend is too low."
So...if I own stock...or have a mutual fund...or some type of retirement account that is funded by the market...does this make me a "Greedy American?"
I really don't feel like working my whole life. I'd like to be able to retire some day, enjoy my paradise and save money by paying less by shopping at a SuperWal-Mart, SuperTarget or any other SuperMegaGiantHybridStore that is available to me in the future because of LESS GOVERNMENT REGULATION!
God Bless America!
"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman
"Vote with your money!"
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How about if you worked your whole life only to find out when it came time for you to retire that the CEOs etc.. had squandered your pension. How about those that are forced to take early retirement and a retirement pkg that has been cut in half.
I'm not saying this happens in all cases but it does happen and it seems to be happening more and more.
If all CEOs ran their companies like Warren Buffet runs Berkshire Hathaway(sp) then wouldn't the world be a btter place? But they don't they become greedy and corrupt and all at the expence, on the backs, of the loyal people that have worked for them for years making them rich.
With that said I conceed to your points and I do think that the US is the best Country in the world.
Blessings,
dave
"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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My comments should not be taken as pro or anti union - pro or anti corporation. It was nothing but a spoof on this notion that a single entity (unions, government, environmentalist, etc) are the sole cause of the problems with American economic development and that if we emulate India, China or some other foreign country everything will be peachy-keen. Truth is nobody is responsible but the people. Many simply do not care how things happen or to whom, so long as it is not happening to them.
I'm glad someone did bring up Toyota because they are a good example.
"Toyota now has several plants here. Building cars and trucks and making a profit. The people that work there are very happy and well paid."
Yes, the workers do make a nice wage, have good benefits, have mandatory safety standards, and are employed. But, they are also unionized in those decent jobs. Yep, Toyota is and is continuing to become a unionized company. Just look at the door stickers. Their distribution network has asked for union representation. I also understand the administrative and facilities staff has also voted for unionization. So I had to wonder, if they are being treated well, why unionization. I didn't read anything about wages being bad (Toyota had a binding wage requirement as part f their government incentives to build in a certain area). Medical insurance wasn’t it (although there was several HIPPA issues). Nothing related to violation of worker benefit package that was part of their tax incentives and subsidies. It was all about deplorable and unsafe working condition. I read about injuries that the company forced workers to claim occurred off work or be fired. I read about safety features that are removed from equipment to increase productivity and when inspectors show up, employees are threaten with their jobs if they tell the inspectors they are missing during production operation. I read about forced overtime at regular pay.
I'm not saying that a union is the salvation, and it may be bringing in a cobra to kill the rattlesnake, but I wonder, if not for the representation the workers asked for, how far would Toyota go in the name of global commerce? So, I assume the majority of global economist also believes that Hawaii should repeal it’s mandatory heath insurance laws so local companies can compete internationally, or is there a difference?
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quote:
"...I do think that the US is the best Country in the world"
Me? I know you didn't ask me.
But, I dunno. I think we need a helluva lotta work.
More humility. Less pride.
More compassion. Less bravado.
Me? I happen to think the US is simply a country in the world...
...and like all countries in the world, the US needs to treat its citizens, its neighbors, those it agrees with and those it doesn't, those it can compete with and those it can't, with a teeny bit more respect. I think we need to spend less time waving the flag and tooting our horns, and more time learning what actually seems to be working elsewhere.
I think we should concentrate our efforts on one day, one day, maybe, maybe, just perhaps becoming one of the best.
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Oops, I need to clarify my pervious comment as it contains a major error.
It appears that Toyota itself is not a unionized company. What they have done was simply make several arraignments with second parties to provide unionized support to their operations in the US. This includes administrative operations, logistics and production. Example is they doe not produce the Tacoma (and others) at a Toyota own and operated plant, they contract to a unionized production line for it to be manufactured. This gives them the dual advantage of not having to deal with a union directly, but having union workers. According to their information, the use of leased union workers does occur in some areas although they do not identify to employees who is leased and who is not (they cite privacy).
It should be mentioned that they did claim the reason workers don't need a union is because they are paid the same competitive wages and receive the same benefits negotiated at unionized companies. The issue over increased organizing activity recently was due in part to isolated safety problems and “overzealous” management that is being addressed. Toyota denies they planned to lower compensation now those employees would be more concerned about just having a job. The information contained in the stolen management training document to lower American workers wages to Asian and Central American levels was just a training tool for managers.
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quote:
quote:
"...I do think that the US is the best Country in the world"
Me? I know you didn't ask me.
But, I dunno. I think we need a helluva lotta work.
More humility. Less pride.
More compassion. Less bravado.
Me? I happen to think the US is simply a country in the world...
...and like all countries in the world, the US needs to treat its citizens, its neighbors, those it agrees with and those it doesn't, those it can compete with and those it can't, with a teeny bit more respect. I think we need to spend less time waving the flag and tooting our horns, and more time learning what actually seems to be working elsewhere.
I think we should concentrate our efforts on one day, one day, maybe, maybe, just perhaps becoming one of the best.
Hey Malolo,
I agree with every thing you posted above. And as usual you said it very eloquently but (yeah there's a but) But the reason I state that The US is the best Country in the world is not based, as your post is, entirely on our actions lately.
I know you're traveled and I know you've seen some cool places in lies my position.
Were it not for the Great United States most of those places wouldn't be the way they wre.
Understand, had we not loaded 100s of thousands of young men on, not one but both the east and the west coast and sent many of them to their demise the world would not be the same place it is today. WWII: Europe was lost save Britain and they could have only held on few more weeks. North africa was lost as would have been Asia.
The US freed and/or defended more countries than I care to try to list.
So yes Malolo my friend (i hope) we may not be where you and I would like and we dam sure are materialistic hogs that are quit full of ourselves, but we did this world a great service.
Could we do it again? I dunno thats speaks, somewhat, to the discussion we are having about our dependencies on foriegn stuff. Am i happy that we're currently acting like the late USSR did in the 70s and early 80s? Nope not at all. But, I still give this country credit for what it did 65 years ago and the men it gave. We should not forget.. No one should.. the day the big dog got its lazy ass up off the porch and went out in the dark and fought the wolves. Peace, dave
Blessings,
dave
"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
Posts: 414
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Joined: Jun 2006
quote:
I'm glad someone did bring up Toyota because they are a good example.
"Toyota now has several plants here. Building cars and trucks and making a profit. The people that work there are very happy and well paid."
Yes, the workers do make a nice wage, have good benefits, have mandatory safety standards, and are employed.But, they are also unionized in those decent jobs. Yep, Toyota is and is continuing to become a unionized company.
Hey Bob, I'm little worn out from my last post. I tried to post this earlier and it wouldn't go so I'm gonna try again. Anyone else having trouble posting tonight?
As I write this you have already recanted the Toyota being unionized part. I think what you ment to say is that some of the parts that go on Toyotas are made by unionized facitlities. As well some are made in Maquiladoras (Mexican companies located within the 20 mile free trade zone)
Anyway, Texas (yeah I said it Rob) is a "right to work state" Historicly Union (and Mob) organizers don't do very well here. There is a Toyota plant here. And again I say it, our companies have all the same working conditions as the heavily organized companies in other states.
With that said we also have all the other things on your list that hinder corporations in their attempts to compete with the multi national markets. Environmental regs, Trade sanctions etc..
I appreciate your thoughts Bob keep em coming.
Blessings,
dave
"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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