Big Box Ban - Thoughts?

[KeithLee]

Ive been giving this some thought.

I've seen some pretty big boxes in my time. Perhaps the biggest was a refrigerator box.

We use to drag them home and use them as tents to sleep in in the back yard.

I don't think big boxes should be banned.

Think of all the kids that would be denied a fort or a tent.

And what about using them for puppet shows. Surely that can't offend anyone.

I don't know if the boxes were made in the US though. That could pose a problem and I would hate to think we were sleeping in a sub standard foreign product.



Perhaps we shouldn't regard Aloha as a requirement of the people of Hawaii and just be grateful when we recieve it?

[Carolann R]

Arizona is a "Right to Work" State. Basically, that means there are little to no unions in the entire state...it shocked me coming from both New York State and California where unions are everywhere.

Tony has worked for Toyota dealerships for nearly 23 years. We moved here last year and it's the first time he's in a union. He makes less than he did in Arizona. And if they didn't pay him union scale we would starve.

The dealerships are all owned privately (well, that's complicated - privately to a certain extent). The Hawaii dealerships are all a part of SERVCO but some are owned by the DeLuz family. They don't have to market themselves or run their shops according to Toyota's standards which they hold the Mainland dealerships to. On the Mainland Tony's boss owned dealerships in So. Cal. and two in Scottsdale and they had to answer directly to Toyota Japan for their bottom line. They even get audited by Toyota Japan. Here in Hawaii it would be SERVCO that oversees them.

The unfortunate thing is that the amazing technology that Toyota required his dealership to use in Scottsdale, they think is too expensive and not necessary here in Hawaii and they don't even consider it. So - it makes the service guy's job more difficult. It's more difficult to diagnose problems, more difficult to order parts, etc. Things are very behind here in comparison. (No big shock, right?)

Sorry, hope I didn't get too off-track. )

Carrie

"All I can say about life is, Oh God, enjoy it." Bob Newhart

[mella l]

"Could we do it again? I dunno thats speaks, somewhat, to the discussion we are having about our dependencies on foriegn stuff. Am i happy that we're currently acting like the late USSR did in the 70s and early 80s? Nope not at all. But, I still give this country credit for what it did 65 years ago and the men it gave. We should not forget.. No one should.. the day the big dog got its lazy ass up off the porch and went out in the dark and fought the wolves. Peace, dave"

http://www.pbshawaii.org/programs/war/

Senator Inouye, Hawaii, was on last nights installment of Ken Burns, WWII, PBS documentary, link above. As a 17 year old high school student and Red Cross volunteer, he certainly had vivid recall of the events of Pearl Harbor.

I believe there are 7 segments. A view of history and why our current state of affairs, in my opinion, doesn't even compare, my uninformed opinion no doubt.

Off topic, but in our future is a global economy an a little history to guide us along cannot hurt.

LOL refrigerator boxes and puppet shows were a fun part of the neighborhood I grew up in and I passed it on to my children also.

Perhaps the Big Box ban is to stifle competition, keep it local, but if so is short sighted. Change is hard for everyone, frightening to some, no matter what the subject, home, family community, job, church, you name it.


mella l

[Bob Orts]

So, it looks like all the issues of union or not union is really subject to individual's feelings and understandings...
...Which brings us full circle back to the Big Box Ban.

From reading everything I gathered over the weekend, my view is the Big Box Ban is on the surface a concern over a single mega facility offering traditionally separated type markets that are being grouped together. A single massive facility takes a greater toll on community resources and delivers less overall positive economic impact versus the traditional multi-store approach.

But, under the surface, I'm seeing the requirements aimed exclusively at Super Wal-Mart and Super Target centers for the protection of traditional supermarkets. There's nothing that prevents Target from opening a 1,000,000 sq foot store that sells their normal merchandise and a full home improvement center and a full auto dealership, and a full appliance store, and a full airplane service center, just so long as they keep the amount of floor space that is devoted to food sales below a certain level.

So, this does not seem like any protectionism for mom & pops, or one store versus another, it seems to only protect the supermarkets.

[Chunkster]

Stacy Higa, the main proponent for the very flawed big box ban, is a Hilo politician generally considered the poster child for the "good old boy network." His notoriety for rude and threatening behavior has even made the local press from time to time, particulary in reference to his intimidation of another council person's staff member and some of his buddies threatening to break someone's camera at a public event in Kona.

Some local wags even say his middle initials should be KTA. Just to mix up the political categories, he will bash WalMart for its treatment of the little guys with one hand and cozy up to the union busting, multi-millionaire new operator of the Naniloa Resort Hotel in Hilo with the other. What a guy!

Higa seems to have somehow convinced a majority of the Council that it is OK to keep out a major opportunity for reducing the cost of living for the vast majority in order to protect the interests of a small minority.

It is amazingly paternalistic for a so-called Populist to refuse to allow the people to choose for themselves.



Edited by - Chunkster on 09/24/2007 11:40:58

[mella l]

Woops that settles it!

"The dealerships are all owned privately (well, that's complicated - privately to a certain extent). The Hawaii dealerships are all a part of SERVCO but some are owned by the DeLuz family. They don't have to market themselves or run their shops according to Toyota's standards which they hold the Mainland dealerships to. On the Mainland owned dealerships in So. Cal. and two in Scottsdale and they had to answer directly to Toyota Japan for their bottom line. They even get audited by Toyota Japan. Here in Hawaii it would be SERVCO that oversees them".

Was going to buy a Prius, but think I might stick to my OX cart now!




mella l

Edited by - mella l on 09/25/2007 10:02:37

[Kelena]

I won't argue the economics of this issue: global economy versus buying locally, non-union companies versus unionized companies. That certainly depends on your point of view.

But to my mind, it is absolutely beyond dispute that Big Boxes diminish the local culture of the area they are plopped down on.

When I was a child, every state looked different. People had different accents. Shops were different. Shops had shopkeepers. There was a stronger sense of place in each of the united states. That sense of place is almost lost.

A Big Box store may provide cheaper goods but there is a tradeoff: Hawai'i will look more like the place you so very much wanted to leave.

[Bob Orts]

First, the law that was approved was NOT a BIG BOX Ban; it is a Grocery Super-Center Ban.

I would like everyone to read Bill 165, which was defeated. This bill set the required standards for "Super-Centers/Big Box" including location, zoning, development standards, community & environmental impact, all the way down to landscaping. This is similar to the laws in CA, WI, VT, CO and others that have been tested in courts and passed judicial muster. It would have given the government, community, and the people complete control over the development projects. Since it's a pure zoning and development standard for a specific class of zoning, it's unlikely it could be challenged successfully.

Next I want you to read Bill 167, which passed. It basically said we don’t want supermarkets and retail together in a large store so it's completely outlawed. This is the exact same language that's in all the ordinances that have failed on the mainland. How do you outright ban a retail operation based on the products they decide to sell?

This law actually makes it legal for a one million square feet store to open in commercial or industrial zoned areas so long as they don't have more than 20,000 sq. feet of groceries. Sears can open up a store as big as the Hilo airport so long as they don’t sell groceries.

The law as approved is a shame and does nothing to stop big boxes from opening up on any property that has the proper zoning. All they did was ensure that grocery stores will not have competition, nothing about stopping a big box from opening down the street from you. So those who welcome Big Box stores, this law gives them to you on a silver platter. Those who oppose Big Box stores, sorry they can come so long as they go easy on the mustard.