A carbon neutral big island?

[JWFITZ]

Sorry, I can't support the bio-diesel thing. What you've done is introduce ANOTHER greenhouse gas emitting fuel source when what we need to learn to do is not drive at all. Whatever. The market will rule, and soon, and in five years I promise we'll all be minimalist environmentalists. Some of us will have those skills. Some won't.

[tada]

I would think the best place in Hawaii to grow sugar cane is where they used to grow it- the Hamakua Coast as well as the Hilo area since I heard cane needs lots of water.

Others want to make friends- I just want to make money.
James Cramer

[Tahunatics]

Ideally we should all be driving electric vehicles, however most of the electricity is generated with coal, natural gas, oil or even nuclear so it's not really clean unless you have your own photovoltaic array. The oil lobby killed the electric car and there is also the huge market for car parts and repairs which the electric car threatens. Follow the money.

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/

Biodiesel is coming to the Big Island by Pacific Biodiesel very soon. It's the next best thing and can easily be grown here if we were to plant African Oil Palms. Biodiesel is clean, renewable, made in USA and no war required.

http://www.biodiesel.com/

An online documentary can be seen here:

http://www.freedomfuels.info/

I have been talking with Pacific Biodiesel for several years and I received this recent email from Kelly King of Pacific Biodiesel in Maui;

Aloha Steve,

We are currently planning for the Big Island plant, working with the County on the used cooking oil and also a couple of potential feedstock growers. I have a presentation to do to a group of folks in Kona in early November, at which time I hope to be able to share more details. You can email Emily, kbaybb@aloha.net, to find out more about the presentation which we hope will include a screening of the documentary Revolution Green (check out http://www.revolutiongreen.com/).

I hope to see you in November!

Kelly

Edited by - Tahunatics on 10/30/2007 04:55:33

[Bob Orts]

Just a quick note.
Many groups on the mainland have hit major obstacles with discussing alternative vehicle fuels because of the confusion in terminology. I’ve seen good projects get side tracked over unrelated issues because although everyone was reading from the same book, they were on different chapters. So I strongly recommend to overcome potential lengthy discussions on unrelated issues, make sure you are talking the same language. The average person has no idea of the differences. Biodiesel is one fuel with its own advantages/disadvantages - E85 is another fuel with its own advantages/disadvantages – Alchohol/Ethanol is another fuel with its own advantages/disadvantages.

Just to give an example, I once attended a meeting concerning a fuel station request to get approval for dispensing E85. One vocal group kept arguing and complaining about the "French Fry" smell. Finally someone explained the difference between the two fuels but he damage was done as people had already walked out in protest or suddenly started thinking that the E85 refueling station would smell like a Burger Buster on a Saturday night.

Being the owner and user of two different types of AFV's I've been asked over and over again is the cost worth the savings. My response is always the same: "the cost of not looking at alternative was way too high a price for me to pay!"

I wish all projects success.


Edited by - bob orts on 10/30/2007 10:48:00

[JWFITZ]

The solution is not "biofuels"--the solution is NOT DRIVING.

I think any sensible look at the data and the ramifications of biofuels makes it look like a non-winner. As a group, it's all the same thing, burning carbon compounds and throwing them in the air. You can cook the books to sweeten the deal, but all in all there's very little if any(to my mind) ecological benefit.

Consider, really, how amazingly efficient a modern gasoline engine really is. My 15000 new toyota tacoma will deliver a ton of goods(loaded to the gills) 25 miles up the road on one gallon of gasoline. I DEFY anyone to perform the same stunt with less impact any other way. It would take 50 people at least two days to lug the same--and you'd have to feed them probably 1000 times the caloric load. A team of horses and one man could do it in 2 days, but you still have to the defer the cost of two days wages and the mainenence of the animals. Really, if viewed as a tool, that pickup is a stunningly effective powerful item, and even at 100 dollars a gallon of gas is worth its service.

But for joyriding, which is 99 percent of vehicle traffic, it's an utter waste. . .

[Bob Orts]

My point is:
People will not STOP driving!

No matter how much we want that to happen,
No matter how much we need it to happen,
No matter how much we know it should happen,
It won't happen.

So do we continue on the path of pursuing driving celibacy, hoping and wishing that it happened? Or, do we address what we can do immediately and not have our children debating the same issue 20 years from now because Plan A was a flop? In the 1970’s we had the answer; Stop driving. Thirty plus years later that plan still hasn’t materialized. But had we adopted fuel saving measures instead of “I’m Grog, Must have big SUV that drinks gas like Woolly Mammoth drinks water”… this debate wouldn’t be happening…..

[Rob Tucker]

I don't want to stop driving. I like driving. I want to stop buying gasoline. There is a car under development in Europe that runs on compressed air. I want one.

[Bob Orts]

Now Rob, you know what's going to be said:

"You still need gasoline to power the onboard compressor"

"You need to use energy made from fossil fuels to power all the compressors throughout the county"

"It uses three times the energy to produce a compressed air tank than a gasoline fuel tank"

"If you’re using the air for your car, the government will start taxing each breath I take"

"Service stations will raise the price of air and I'll have to drive on flatter tires because of the cost"

"This is a conspiracy by the liberal left and Hillary"

"Bush want’s to start offering businesses air tax credits for his buddies"

"I can't catch my breath! You’re using up all the air in your car"

"We'll be at the mercy of OAEC"

“Who gave you the right to use my air?”

“It’s exploiting a god given natural resource for commercial gain”

“Nobody needs a car that ONLY gets 35 miles per cubic foot at 150 psi”

"Dang, I should have bought stock in MDI like Rob did... stupid me... stupid me..."


"

[Rob Tucker]

They're gonna say: "Where can I get one of those".

[Bob Orts]

Seriously, let's say I was interested in buyng the MDI license for the Big Island, do you think the car is viable for island use or is it another ZAP Zebra to be relegated to the eco-hippies?