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I remember when there were more Sea Turtles swimming in Champagne pond than humans.
The last time I went it was a disgusting mess.. Too much stink-eye from the locals in the A-frame house...
Thought I saw a floating sea cucumber, but it turned out to be a turd!!
No wonder the sea turtles left...
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quote:
I would like to see Kapohocat's suggestion for replacing all the antique cesspools there become a reality -especially as the place approaches build out.
This is a difficult reality if the county actually becomes serious in implementing improvements in waste treatment in the shoreline areas. In our working group in the PCDP (Growth Management) subsurface water quality was a major focus of investigation. As Rob pointed out we recommended disallowing cesspools for all new development. The working group's document can be found at
http://www.hcrc.info/hawai-i-island-plan...t.pdf/view
We also made a strong recommendation that for new development in SMA's (shoreline management areas) and within 1000' feet of drilled wells that aerobic septic systems must be required. Regular septic systems are simply inadequate for waste treatment in critical areas where subsurface and shoreline water will directly affect people. Aerobic septic systems are like small scale municipal sewage systems in that air is bubbled through an additional chamber in a septic tank by a submerged pump. These systems can produce near-potable treated water and are vastly superior to standard septic systems. Unfortunately they are also very expensive. Having had to personally install one on Maui (due to proximity to a drilled well) we found that they cost on the order of $15,000. The other alternative that many expanding neighborhoods on the mainland have had to experience is to retrofit a piped sewage system feeding a large scale municipal-style treatment plant with each property owner paying some portion of the cost. While it's possible this may be a less expensive bulk solution, there are other consequences such as odor from the treatment plant. If there are any civil engineers around perhaps they might be able to make some guess of comparative cost.
The point is that the issue of preventing serious subsurface and ocean pollution from the use of cesspools is expensive to correct. Going cheap with standard septic systems does little to correct the problem. While existing development is often grandfathered into revised development codes, where an area is considered critical, such as a popular shoreline area, grandfathering may not be considered appropriate and the property owners may well be at least partially on the hook to update their systems.
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quote:
Kapohocat. Point well taken. 8-15 people per unit on occasion is alot of ____ dumping right into the shoreline. Septic sytems near the pond would be nice.
Wyatt
yes it would be better - but now if you are within under certain elevation (I think 10') it is aerobic system required rather than septic. I would like to see a closed system or sewers but... I would also like to be a billionaire - neither looks likely soon.
Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 217-7578
http://bluewaterpm.125mb.com/index.html
"We help make building your dream home a reality"
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quote:
quote:
I would like to see Kapohocat's suggestion for replacing all the antique cesspools there become a reality -especially as the place approaches build out.
This is a difficult reality if the county actually becomes serious in implementing improvements in waste treatment in the shoreline areas. In our working group in the PCDP (Growth Management) subsurface water quality was a major focus of investigation. As Rob pointed out we recommended disallowing cesspools for all new development. The working group's document can be found at
http://www.hcrc.info/hawai-i-island-plan...t.pdf/view
We also made a strong recommendation that for new development in SMA's (shoreline management areas) and within 1000' feet of drilled wells that aerobic septic systems must be required. Regular septic systems are simply inadequate for waste treatment in critical areas where subsurface and shoreline water will directly affect people. Aerobic septic systems are like small scale municipal sewage systems in that air is bubbled through an additional chamber in a septic tank by a submerged pump. These systems can produce near-potable treated water and are vastly superior to standard septic systems. Unfortunately they are also very expensive. Having had to personally install one on Maui (due to proximity to a drilled well) we found that they cost on the order of $15,000. The other alternative that many expanding neighborhoods on the mainland have had to experience is to retrofit a piped sewage system feeding a large scale municipal-style treatment plant with each property owner paying some portion of the cost. While it's possible this may be a less expensive bulk solution, there are other consequences such as odor from the treatment plant. If there are any civil engineers around perhaps they might be able to make some guess of comparative cost.
The point is that the issue of preventing serious subsurface and ocean pollution from the use of cesspools is expensive to correct. Going cheap with standard septic systems does little to correct the problem. While existing development is often grandfathered into revised development codes, where an area is considered critical, such as a popular shoreline area, grandfathering may not be considered appropriate and the property owners may well be at least partially on the hook to update their systems.
Much better said than me! Thank you !!!!!!!
Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 217-7578
http://bluewaterpm.125mb.com/index.html
"We help make building your dream home a reality"
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Aloha kakou!
The input to this issue is FANTASTIC!
I wish I had "THE ANSWER" instead I have only questions? Maybe the answer will come.
Balance - there isn't any!
We can argue all day about - too many people moving to the island and their impact. Developers, zoning, ad infinitum!
I really feel for the people who have been born here or have lived here long enough to have enjoyed the unspoiled beauty of these islands and the Big Island specifically.
Going to your nearest/favorite spot - especially at the ocean. How did you get there?
When you got there more than likely their was no infrastructure - roads - parking - facilities. You just made do.
I am very sorry to say Hawaii has moved on and those days are as gone as $2.00 a gallon gas - which was not that long ago!
This concept bugs me:
All shoreline is open to the people.
The people need to get to the shoreline - if there is an impediment - man made or natural - legal or illegal - going around it, over it or thru it is an acceptable practice - laws, permits, whatever do not apply.
People can say they are concerned about the environment but are willing to abuse it to satisfy themselves. Unlawful camping is the best example - it has a HUGE impact.
Now the hard questions - not looking for a fight - not looking to insult - just would like some answers:
How many of us would like to have a government agency send them a notice:
Dear Sir, Your APPROVED - PERMITTED waste disposal system is no longer viable - replace it or else.
How many of us would like to have our community association or whatever - send them a notice:
Dear sir, Your dues/fees will be going UP because: there is no "approved shoreline access" - no "permitted camping" - no "allowed parking" - no "facilities" and it is all our fault because we live here.
Why is this statement acceptable?
"This island has a huge problem. Tourism has gone through the roof. All of the tour operators are running on unencumbered land and all the agencies have been allowing operators to do it," Marrow said. "What are you going to do? You can't just shut everyone down."
'O wau no me ka mahalo!
Joey "O"
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Having moved from a county that had upgraded their standards to aerobic septic from standard for all rural resisdences, there are fairly painless (relatively) ways of updating the systems. Our last county:
gave real estate tax breaks to parcels that had upgraded (and 'pollution tax' to those that had not complied)
had 0% loans available with long range payback
made compliance mandatory for real estate transfer (ie: you sell or change ownership in any way, the system had to be upgraded)
In this way, those who could not comply, did have a tax burden for their non-compliance, but could also save by complying with a long term loan. The big catch was that real estate could not change hands without compliance....In a place like Kapoho, many of the non-compliant parcels would be compliant within a very few years just based on that one factor. Either the seller or the buyer has to bring the property into compliance for the transfer to be recorded.
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Very interesting input. Thank you.
Could you identify the county? We might want to check the language of their ordinances and codes.
Successful mechanisms are always interessting.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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This discussion is the same that has not been asked, debated, fought over, and even had blood shed, in many areas, many times all over the mainland.
In reading the post, it's clear just about everyone recognizes the need to protect the area from human caused destruction. And, like so many problems past, present, and future similar debates from Hawaii to Maine, it boils down to: Which Humans?
The property owners will argue that they are not doing anything wrong; it’s the people that don’t live along the pond causing the problem. After all we have an approved waste disposal and go home when we need to use the bathroom.
The district residents claim it’s not them; they live in the area and respect the natural beauty and environmental concerns. Besides, we go to the bathroom before we arrive. It’s really those from the east side causing the problem.
The eastsiders are appalled. We live on this island and understand the environmental concerns. As resident of this island, we have the right to enjoy the pond. Anyway, we stopped at Starbucks and used the bathroom before we came. It’s the tourist from other islands….
…And this goes on and on and on and on!, be it peeing or camping, litter or blankets.
It will morph backwards and forwards from topic to topic with the same results – Finger pointing. One side has to be right the other side has to be wrong – Each side downplaying their negative impact and each side highlighting their positive impact. It’s not my inadequate waste disposal system; it’s this pooping in the woods. My little turd pales in comparison to your raw sewage seeping into the water from you. Our combined poop is nothing compared to the tourist. Our tourists are respectful of the natural beauty and anyway, they don’t camp overnight… Same old – same old, blah, blah, blah!
Point is, there’s a problem and everyone is contributing to it. So it doesn’t matter if what your doing was once approved, was once accepted, was once tolerated, was once…..
It doesn’t matter if it’s your land, my land, Uncle Moki’s land, or Auntee Laura Bush’s land… It doesn’t matter who has what access, who did what to mitigate this or that, what should or shouldn’t be allowed, what road is or isn’t public – private – abandoned – illegal…. What does it matter if tests are done in the morning, afternoon, evening – high tide or low tide – two hours after a hurricane the first quarter before a full moon when the year ends in a even number….
Find a solution to end ALL contributing factors or lose the very thing everyone is fighting over.
point taken, Bob.
Although to me it is already lost.
I won't swim in areas where the risk of bacterial infection is up ... the ocean is bad enough, based on Hawai`i Island Journal's article on MRSA in Hawaiian waters (this issue).
Menehune
you wrote--I really feel for the people who have been born here or have lived here long enough to have enjoyed the unspoiled beauty of these islands and the Big Island specifically
Just to be clear about Champagne Pond, this isn't in the good old days we used to go there and enjoy a light crowd ... more like a year or two!
quote:
This concept bugs me: All shoreline is open to the people. The people need to get to the shoreline - if there is an impediment - man made or natural - legal or illegal - going around it, over it or thru it is an acceptable practice - laws, permits, whatever do not apply.
That's not true. The shoreline is open to everyone coming from the sea or by walking along the shoreline, or by access easements or by public roads. No cutting through people's yards unless that yard has an easement attached.
I mean, people do it (especially if they consider Big Island Revealed to be their Bible), but it's not OK.
I was unaware until I read this topic that the lava roads from the lighthouse area were made illegally or shouldn't have been made. Is that State land or County? I suppose they or DNLR could gate the road if they didn't want it used.
Anyhow, the shoreline access law is complicated. There are plenty of rules. It's not a free-for-all everyone-do-whatever-is-necessary-to-get-to-the-ocean law.
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quote:
...People can say they are concerned about the environment but are willing to abuse it to satisfy themselves. Unlawful camping is the best example - it has a HUGE impact....
We practice the "leave no trace" camping method. (Thank you hooligal for the sawdust/bucket idea from the playa!) When we recently camped south of Kua Bay on a 4WD road, it was cleaner and less impact than the beach at Kua Bay that now has 2-300 people a day on it. All the campers we saw leaving on Sunday packed their trash out, had literally carried their Sh*t out, and there was little trace except for the road.
When the developers & the county & the state continue to elimate camping - where are you supposed to camp? Spencers? YUCK! King Kam Hotel? Waikoloa Hotel?
How many camp grounds are on the shore that are decent? And you can get a camping permit? (Remember I am old enough to have a photo of me & my parents camping - with a car- at Yosemite!)
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