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Using GPS to locate property lines
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02-01-2008, 09:13 AM
At my previous house the survey disclosed that the original surveyor measured the block from the wrong end. Every lot was off by 6 feet.
Pua`a S. FL Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL Big Islander to be.
02-01-2008, 01:29 PM
quote: Ha ha! [  ]Thanks for the history. I always wondered how they did it!We are havign a issue down here with the neighbor and trenching. SB is goign to be out in our yard -pulling mesurements off brand new surveys because yes our pins cant be found except for one front pin. Thank goodness the two brand new surveys are there - and we have to pull less than 42' off them to get ours. The guy digging the trench tried to tell us yesterday that the trench is going to run pretty much in front of our carport. SB said "that aint happening". So you will find him tomorrow with transit, marker paint and a 100' tape in our backyard! In addition we are getting our friends very expensive GPS (but only good to +/- 3'). Will keep you posted. If you here all hell breaking lose down here in Kapoho.... that'd be SB vs. the bulldozer.
02-17-2008, 02:01 AM
yes, Kat, "GPS (but only good to +/- 3')". That is the general understanding on how close the GPS can or may not be.. However,, the County does not share the same sediment, trust me on that thought.. Whether a bad inspector call or not in my case, because although I’ve had my difficulties with a single inspector, and 'his' behavior,,. Not just regarding my property line, that inspector,, ha ha.
However, Taking that GPS rule up the chain of command in the county, although many upper level inspectors and directors are WAY more friendly, and tolerant,, they will cite a larger percentage, or margin of error on GPS accuracy.. Not on scientific knowledge, but on statistical and experience. Moreover, when adding the human error factor, it goes up.. I was very impressed with Chris though; he did say there was room for error in finding my pins. And the two pins i was hunting for were very deceiving or actually the surrounding factors made it this way., Two pins establishing the property line and corner radius of my lot right at the intersection of the street.. What was distracting had been, what the county had done to improve that corner so the Bus, could navigate a turn there.. And my property has a bank on this side which ‘looks’ or ‘appears’ to follow the street. But, that bank does not, it flows into my property whereas it appears to run along side of the road. They had added asphalt to this corner within 6" of my property,, completely using up the 10' county right-of-way at the intersection.. And from just looking at the street, probable property lines, it created a visual sense that, there was no way the county had used up all of that right-of way.. I myself struggled with finding the pins because I’d expected too, that there was no way the county could have been so mistaken with the asphalt, street improvements. This whole experience was a first for me too.. Because in the past, while fencing and or general construction, one of the easiest ways I’d used to find the first monument, (pin) most places I’ve completed have monuments, with county solid iron pins. Anyways, I’ve always been able to trust the county and city roads. Once you know the set back and or right-of way. And you know the distance of it,, it’s a piece of cake finding the pins within a foot or two.. I’ve always been able to pull a tape measure off of the street, and presto, bingo, there’s the monument.. County surveyors will boast themselves,, they are ‘always right’! ha.. I’ve never found reason to believe otherwise until now.. Because, not only had they improved the corner this close to my property??? The whole street bordering one side was 3 feet off.. 3 feet off of center, too close to mine and everybody on this side of the street.. that 3 feet was the other and main reason I could not find my pin to begin with as well. The county thought it was because my subdivision was originally privately marked and or placement of the asphalt road ways, However, their files state it was placed by the county.. .. 3 feet off,, maybe they used GPS? Ha, ha,, This 3 feet also explained why the county mistakenly improved my corner so poorly too.. They assumed, that street was County surveyor ‘perfection’. However, and this is where Chris comes in. Once he triangulated my lot. (established three confirmed points from the other corners of it which, had fairly fresh visible pins. ).. at first he tried to find my pins where most would 'perceive' them to be.. But that started wasting time because it just would not ping.. Then when I had him move closer to where string lines and tape measures indicated it might be, give or take a foot, he hit it.. that is to say.. when his equipment indicated he was on the mark, and was zeroed in.. he shoved the pointed end of the pole straight down 4-6”. and hit the pin, dead on.. And I mean dead on,, the point of his pole hit the very center of that pin,, (was a pipe and point went in the center)... Next pin was 12' away at a vertical angle which was also tough to 'perceive' but again, once the GPS was zeroed in, bang, 4-6” down and dead on that pin again.. However, it was not 'just' the GPS that found my pins.. The GPS first had to verify reasonable accuracy of the other corner pins.. Without those pins, the margin for error can be found.. 3 feet? 10 feet, human error?? This is very important.. Only because my other pins had a licensed surveyors certification, and were concreted in too, was Chris able to determine accuracy within the triangle.. Once these points were established, and Chris could place a Range pole in the center of my lot, and another on a separate known pin, it was this equipment and communication between his finder, range pole, and other pin pole that could tell him where and precisely my two buried, or hidden. pins were.. The satellite did not nail the pins.. The Satellite verified the first pin, and then the second pin, and with one pin located by the GPS,, the second also located by the GPS,, the distance between these two pins confirmed the GPS's finding.. One more pin, GPS conformation, and distance conformation. and you are in the money prefict trangulation.. from her you can find the exact dead center of the lot. .. Because now you have three points where the GPS confirms and each of these points distance confirms accuracy and triangulation of the three.. This is a close to perfection as it gets.. While the satellite might be off, the meters and communication devises in this equipment, when finding land distance, within, a few hundred feet,, is very precise. These three equipments after verifaction of other points, triangulated the precise distance and location of my buried pins.. Not the GPS locator, but the equipment used after known pins were found reasonably within GPS location.. This is very important to understand.. GPS error yes,, But not if enough verifiable pins are known or found.. This too speaks well for Chris. he totally nailed my pins.. There is only one way he could do this, and probably the most important position he and his equipment must have.. All of his tools are just fine, good stuff, but to nail a pin dead on, calibration is the most important factor.. GPS O.K. 3 +/- feet? Right? Fine,, However that is not near as important considering error, as the need to have his equipment calibrated to as near perfection as it gets.. It was Chris and his having the equipment calibrated so well,, so that when the pins were found, finding the hidden pins were dependant of how well his communication equipment was and how well all three were calibrated.. This is what nailed those pins.. The integrity of the operator/owner to ensure his equipment was on the money. . My pins were just a year and a half old, but the county cited the 10-8' +/- call.. So my final solution was having the previous licensed surveyor, lend a hand verifying. And that was that.. Turned out the county,, had made a huge mistake by improving the corner to 6" away from my property and street center was way off too. .. thanks to that, it was a real headache for me.. Sorry for the long story here, but there's many points to discuss, before depending or relying on the GPS system.. Anyways, I am mostly responding because I am curious about your issue kat. And, wondering about how your property line issue ended up? Was this the driveway to your house issue or the opposite side of your lot... That driveway issue, that's one tough one, however,, some states and or counties have grandfather rules, or something to this effect, that; once a road way or access drive has been in place for a certain period, it's too bad for both owners.. Although there's been several suites on that issue, some win and some don't.. Funny that your house and the neighbor's build so close the county allowed that without proper setbacks, whether both houses were built, (which i don't know about yours) by a single owner or not... But I wonder how your issue came out?
02-17-2008, 02:25 PM
The type of GPS that surveyors use is called differential GPS. The $100 handheld kind is regular GPS. If I understand correctly, given a single shot measured from space you are lucky to get within a few feet. However differential GPS measures two points simultaneously. While they may both be off by 5 feet, they are off by the same 5 feet in the same direction, so if you know the position of one point you can determine the position of the other point within fractions of an inch. The key is you have to start with at least one well known point.
My neighbor and I put up a fence between our properties using a regular old handheld GPS unit. We both knew it would not be super accurate and we could tell as the location would drift back and forth by a few feet as you were standing there watching the screen. However we could never have gotten even that close through the trackless jungle without it. If we ever clear the property line to achieve line of sight from pin to pin we will see that the fence wanders quite a bit.
02-18-2008, 05:40 AM
Jeff-
A single owner built it and saved money by cutting in one driveway long ago. Now that we have a orange marker paint line down our driveway.... we have no driveway or at least not much but there is an legal easement of 110 ft in length from the street --- SB is going to have a friend when he brings equipment down in this neighborhood swing by and cut our driveway and we are going to plant down that orange line. (Picture that - a 80K lb piece of equipment "swinging" by.... ha ha ).... Catherine Dumond Blue Water Project Management 808 965-9261 "We help make building your dream home a reality"
02-26-2008, 01:08 AM
Well that's messed up kat..
just goes to show how important a stupid inch can be in peoples property boundaries.. The County should have ensured both houses would have access regardless of ownership, builder, etc.. Having spent some time at your house, i can not imagine how, now either your neighbors, or ya'll could even approach both parking stalls or garages. that drive is narrow as it is. With a line drawn down it, and keep off "my" side signs, whether virtual or psychical. It all makes for a cold cup of coffee where now both you and your neighbors are in each other eyes ‘the neighbors from hell’.. What’s a stupid inch or foot, when everybody loses? |
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