Hawaiian rainforests act as a kind of natural carbon sink, soaking up carbon that would otherwise be in the atmosphere helping increase global warming effects. Asner said: “We have shown that these particular invasive species change the amount of carbon stored in ecosystems,” meaning less carbon is stored in an ecosystem dominated by these species.
-------
Today in History
Wasp-like parasites are introduced to Hawai'i in an effort to fight the mango fruit fly discovered in the islands the previous year, 1947.
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
............ and things are suddenly very silent.
I can't be on here 24/7 you know [  ]
[  ]
-------
Today in History
Wasp-like parasites are introduced to Hawai'i in an effort to fight the mango fruit fly discovered in the islands the previous year, 1947.
Posts: 1,273
Threads: 41
Joined: Oct 2007
Thanks, Damon, and I'm not trying to be contentious,
BUT
The evidence I've been presented with does not fit that description. If he(Asnser) feels justified in say that, I'd like to see the data. A As of yet, I have not. All I've gotten to see is his interpretation of that data, and I've no idea whether he knows what he's talking about or not. I'm no dolt, I can read that stuff, and I'll stand by it. I'm certainly not obstinate. But, I really don't care what the experts say: they may not be experts but simply spokesmen. 8 months ago experts said Countrywide was a good investment!? Everybody, myself included, should have their assertions lit by the light of day, and if they can't stand that, well, baloney.
As well, I have, as I've written, a non-theoretical situation here that I'd like the information to inform, and as far as I can see, I'm as well informed as any.
Thanks though.
The outlined areas in this map show the areas that were studied.
You can check out this write up on how the data was collected:
"We detected outbreaks in very remote areas, where there was no foot traffic, no human facilitation. Ecologically it was really interesting that these plants can reproduce, move across the landscape, without our help, being dispersed by birds, wind or pigs."
fyi - I had nothing to do with this project... Just remember reading some stuff a few days ago about this project.
-------
Today in History
Wasp-like parasites are introduced to Hawai'i in an effort to fight the mango fruit fly discovered in the islands the previous year, 1947.
Posts: 1,273
Threads: 41
Joined: Oct 2007
Thanks, I'll check it out--I'm sure there's something interesting to learn there.
Posts: 1,273
Threads: 41
Joined: Oct 2007
I guess I learned that one of the major reasons the invasives move so fast is that they're good nitrogen fixers, and make the poor soil of Hawaii much more rich. . .um, ok.
Anyway, I need a sensible argument as to why I shouldn't plant eucalyptus or albezia for that matter, if it is better for the soil-- for fuel production and as an rigorous attempt to pump down the carbon cost of my home and my life.
Ideas?
Posts: 1,273
Threads: 41
Joined: Oct 2007
A note here to steward the conversation before I get to work.
It is impossible to take on the task of attempting to live in an ecologically benign manner without a concise and coherent holistic view of the the earth, its systems, and its current state. The single greatest issue we face, clearly, at this date--an issue so awesome in magnitude that it dwarfs all other ecological issues, is global heating. The data is coming in fast, and most anything in print is out of date before it gets to press, and there is a tremendous effort being made to get a clear perspective of where we are going. And the trend, certainly, is towards greater and faster and more damaging change all the time.
Current conservative predictions:
1 degree F temperature rise every 5 years, with a likely accelerated spike in next 20 of perhaps 5 to 10 degrees. The spike is due to the fact that we're further along PAST the tipping point spoken of than we think--and the climate especially in the N. Hemisphere is about 3 to 5 degree C. artificially cool due to particulate emissions. As we start to clean up our act, and skies get clearer, we'll get an immediate bump. The evidence suggests strongly at this point that the sept 11 grounding of air traffic triggered a nationwide heat wave.
Progressive meaningful thoughtful scientists are arguing that we begin adding sulfur to jet fuel, to attempt to slow the progression, as the political will is really dragging.
We're in the high 390's ppm CO2 at this point, we're adding about 4 ppm a year at our current global rate of consumption. If we get destabilizing events, like a large volcanic eruption in the right place, or MORE eruptions of Methane Clathrates, as now several have now been documented along the Oregon Washington California coast, the whole game is over.
The last time the earth was this warm, in the late Eocene, for reasons we don't know but it is speculated methane clathrates were the key, the earth was about 20 degrees F warmer near the poles and about 12 in the tropics. This triggered large extinctions and it took roughly 250000 years for the earth systems to recover. And it took that long, in spite of the fact that the sun was about .5 percent cooler, and the planet itself was in a pristine natural state. At this point, our best estimates indicate that fully 50 percent of the forested areas that may have existed then are now today dominated by cropland, and the planet itself is in a much less robust state to begin to recover. Sea levels were between 100 and 150 feet higher.
I believe, personally, that our goose is cooked. The discussions we're having about sustainability may have meant something 50 years or so ago, but today is more or less lipstick on a corpse. Even among those who call themselves ecologists, there is very very little evidence of any attempt to move towards a truly sustainable level of personal consumption. And, indeed, it isn't easy to do--as with the population of the world as it is, sustainable really means one thing: impoverished. And of course by that observation, the vast majority of the human beings already live that way. Global GDP is more or less 2000 dollars, and anyone living on more than that, frankly, is using more than their fair share of the earth's resources.
In my mind, in this context, the issue is far more one of simple survival than anything else.
Sorry to be grim. Ultimately I'm optimistic, because a pessimist doesn't plant trees. I'd like to have a hand it preserving as much of what is beautiful of the natural world and that which is elegant of human civilisation as possible--this is really my goal.
I hope that these thoughts clarify what I'd like to point of this conversation to be.
Posts: 8,472
Threads: 1,033
Joined: May 2003
While I appreciate the dialogue I do want to keep the forum operating by the rules. Even a broad topic like climate change can be discussed in Hawaiian terms.
On the subject I saw a PBS documentary years ago. It was called The Mystery of Easter Island, Solved I believe - maybe something else. I have been unable to find it again and would like a copy. It relates to Hawaii as an island existence and to a discussion of the effects of climate change in this way....
Easter Island - also named Rapa Nui - is a very, very remote location which when discovered by Capt. Cook was a mostly grassy isle barely supporting a couple hundred natives.
I my youth the term Easter Island was always accompanied by the preface The Mystery Of because the couple hundred stressed natives were sharing the place with hundreds of very large stone statues. The mystery was how could such a small and subsistence population account for the hundreds of stone statues.
The Solved part of the documentary explained why. And the explanation held a cautionary tale for Hawaii and the whole planet Earth.
Rapa Nui at it's prime was a lush as any known tropical island. At it's peak it had a population estimated at 200,000. Rapa Nui's population growth caused a rapid depletion of resources which led to warfare and starvation. When the last tree was cut down the ability to fish offshore or travel was ended. The struggle for resources depleted the environment to the point that, when discovered by Capt. Cook, the island could barely support 200 people.
You may take from this what you will. If anyone is able to locate the documentary let me know. A couple of my numbers given may be off.... it is my memory recounting this. So feel free to research and update the story. Do not confuse this documentary with the commercial film "Rapa Nui" which was interesting but not actually a scientific inquiry.
I cannot fail to see human kind's and Hawaii's future threatened by a similar fate. Are we sophisticated enough to avoid a repeat of Rapa Nui's history?
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
On the subject I saw a PBS documentary years ago. It was called The Mystery of Easter Island, Solved I believe - maybe something else. I have been unable to find it again and would like a copy.
Email me your mailing address. I have a copy on my desk as I speak write.
I can also get you a copy of - TE PITO O TE HENUA: RAPA NUI if you want:
What does a small isolated island in the Pacific have to teach the rest of the world? Te Pito O Te Henua: Rapa Nui tells the story of Rapa Nui. It explores the close ties between the Rapa Nui people and the people of Hawaii...
-------
Today in History
About 9,000 ILWU sugar workers begin a strike for 39 days, 1974
Posts: 6,214
Threads: 354
Joined: Feb 2006
Rob, even Easter Island is connected to Hawaii (and most likley Puna) as the indigenous peoples on Easter Island were also of same Lapita populations that settled Hawaii The initial landing in Hawaii is thought to be in Kau...but there are rich histories of voyages leaving the Puna Coast.. and some of the Easter Island materials point to the potential of this island - including work in the Geology labs at Hilo working to trace some of the adze of EI to the Mauna Kea quarry....
|
