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"Feeling" a certain way does not make it so. The truth can be bent a long ways without breaking by the gentle pressure of wishes.
As for myself, I desire solutions. Humane solutions, but realistic solutions, and ultimately SOLUTIONS. Reality isn't always, in fact I might say rarely, kind. There were a couple of near starved pit bulls, nasty, wholly unadoptable on my street. What do you do? Take them into a shelter, where they're held for the obligatory 2 weeks or whatever, where they compete with space with a wholly adoptable dog, that gets put down, because it's old? That would be cruel, personally evasive, and unproductive.
If anyone has a better solution, and a solution means ACTION; more power to you. Buy a lot somewhere, and start your own shelter. Otherwise, it's just ridiculous, naive, self-serving talk, which I have less than no respect for.
Felony? You must be kidding. Ag-3; nuisance animals, causing destruction to property. Case closed. You can legally shoot endangered animals in most states, if they screw with your property.
I am no red-neck gun nut. I am a college educated pacifist liberal with elitist tendencies, if nothing else. A firearm is a tool, and a useful one in rural environments. As while I use a skillsaw, or a tablesaw, or a drill often, and a firearm very rarely, I'm proficient with all. That doesn't mean I've got a locker full of dozens of drills, and get a leering grin when I think about drilling holes in a door frame; by and large that's a Hollywood image and false propaganda. Don't buy into that stuff; it's stupid. Most gun owners are very very careful sensible people. Cars are the dangerous thing. Get in context. Can you imagine someone shooting at dogs while blabbing on a cell phone?
Lastly, please, don't be half-ass about any of this. Don't be cruel. Don't shoot dogs with sling shots or pellet guns, as those kind of things end up as festering nasty wounds, especially in a tropical environment. A dog can't pick a BB out of its butt like you might. Either ignore the animal, or if it's a real problem, deal with it. We'd all call that maturity. If you feel otherwise, and would like to suggest a better solution, I'd a appreciate a phone number so I can call you, and YOU can personally come deal with it, most likely in the middle of a rainy night, while some angry animal is digging at my compost pile. I'm not kidding. That's what I expect. Otherwise, perhaps lift the gaze from the navel in the mirror to the face and see what you find there.
This is an ENORMOUS problem. People are cruel in the extreme. The numbers of pit bulls, which I've frankly got no love for, with their teeth smashed out for bait dogs, that I've seen, would make many of you pale. It is awful indeed, and not something for the faint of heart. Still, I've worked in Juvenile Justice too, and I know what kind of people treat dogs like that. Priorities people. The big problem isn't so much dogs, as is personal accountability everywhere.
Let's start working on that now.
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Solution:
Support the Humane Society or Rainbow Sanctuary by donations of money or supplies, volunteer. These places can only improve their services with more support from the community.
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Excellent idea. Lead the way! Post a copy of the receipt of your donations when you're done to set a good example.
"I wouldn't tolerate threats like that for an instant, I'd be more likely to take some bird shot to the idiot that tried that particular letter out on me". .... yurtgirl
So YG ... So you are suggesting starting a petition to control dogs but you gonna shoot someone for a letter ? wow
Maybe you can come start by walking over to my neighbors house.
Quote from my proud daddy neighbor ...
"This dog is my chase and coral dog and the only one I can walk on the street but it will attack you if you run."
" I have another one that works with this one to kill other dogs if I let them both loose which I do if I hear something funny outside."
"I usually let them out at night."
"I have a third one that will kill anything that gets near it including my wife. I had a forth i was training but this one killed it"
Never go into the woods with someone you can't outrun.
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
Snail bait mixed with dog food. Leave a bowl of it in your driveway.
You may or may not be aware of the law signed last year by Gov. Lingle which made a felony out of just such a thing.
According to a statement from her office, "The bill, SB1665 HD1 CD1 (Act 114), creates a felony offense for cruelty to animals. Current law pertaining to cruelty to animals makes the offense a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a maximum fine of $2,000. Act 114 adds a new Class C felony of “cruelty to animals in the first degree,” punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 and imprisonment of up to five years. The bill also renames the existing misdemeanor provisions as “cruelty in the second degree,” which is punishable by a year in jail and/or a $2,000 fine.
“Our pets are part of our families, providing us with unconditional love and companionship,” said Governor Lingle. “In return, we need to ensure that our pets are properly cared for and protected from cruelty and neglect.”
Under the measure, cruelty in the first degree occurs when a person “intentionally or knowingly tortures, mutilates or poisons or causes the torture, mutilation or poisoning of any pet animal resulting in serious bodily injury or death to the pet animal.”
The full statement can be found here.
Other people have said things in this thread which would also rise to the level of a felony, if they were carried out. Just my opinion, but I don't think it's a good idea to advertise on the Internet your intention to commit a felony, if in fact that's what you plan on doing. If it's not what you're planning on doing, then what is this discussion about?
Personally, I'd have a greater respect for you, Fitz, if dogs just started disappearing, and nobody knew how or why.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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Certainly, I agree. I'll call Ms. Lingle personally, as she uses the "we" and I'm sure she'd love to adopt a few of these dogs.
Cleverly written bill, and I think you're reading it incorrectly. Note emphasis on "pet" animal. You'll see this language elsewhere, and in other states as well. A "pet" is a pet if you own it and it is in your yard. Your pet is not my pet. On MY property, YOUR pet is a hazard or more often termed "nusiance" animal. You've got every right in the world to protect yourself from nusiance animals. It is not in anyway a crime unless the animal in question is SPECIFICALLY protected. Do you really expect that we'll all quit using mousetraps because someone's pet mouse may escape and work its way into my pantry? That law clearly does not apply unless to me unless I'm abusing my own animals. It clearly applies soley to the animal owner. Disagree? Well, that's only for a court to decide; not a lawyer, nor a cop. The language is pretty clear.
Still, there are cruelty to animal laws out there, and one should absolutely go out of their way to respect these issues. I obviously am in no way advocating cruelty. Far from it.
Agreed, it's nice to be subtle, but I tend to be a rabble rouser by nature and the fact is that if more of us were "ahem" proactive none of us would have a problem with this issue. It is appropriate at times direct in one's language. I don't mind being direct. This is a problem that needs to be resolved. As well, forceful decisive language is helpful in changing the perception of the public as to what is and is not appropriate. Far too much here is tolerated. So, I feel a little encouragement is warranted. Besides, it's pretty amazing how fast people forget. . .I'm about exhausted with the issue anyhow.
As John Stuart Mill once wrote, more or less, I paraphrase "It's not hard to win an argument; all that takes is good reasoning. What is hard to achieve is to get people to care that you indeed won the argument." Not saying I've won anything, but gosh, JS Mill right on the money with that.
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quote:
Originally posted by YurtGirl
Regardless, it doesn't solve the problem anyway,
With all due respect, it wasn't meant to "solve" a problem. It was exactly what it was, people using the only tool they had at that time and acting with those tools.
Vain? Naive? Stupid? Ridiculous? Weirder than ****?
Yes, and much more!
BUT THEY ACTED!
They didn't sit around debating the philosophical morality of this or that they took what little action they could, but they acted! They didn't sit around talking about how everyone else needs to act, they did!
It's easy to talk, it's another thing to implement. You want a dog pound? Fine, get out and start raising money for it. With only a few calls today I learned it averages $25,000 a month to operate a small community base animal pound. With all properties in Puna District, that's about $1.00 a year. Would you be willing to start a referendum drive to raise property taxes $1 a year with it earmarked for a District animal pound?
It doesn’t matter if the tool is a dog pound, beefed up animal control, new laws, or a stupid message; what matters is that it's not talk but an action. You can write all the letters you want to all the government officials, but if you never mail them, what was accomplished? You can have all the plans for all the pounds with all the enforcement, but if you never lift a finger to implement them, what good are they?
As stupid as you may think that notice was or as stupid as you may think feeding the rumor is, those people got off their lazy rears and did something.
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I certainly hope you're right in your interpretation of the law, Fitz. Me, I don't think I'd want to risk $10,000 plus the potential of 5 years in the stripey house on my own abilities to interpret the law.
Good luck.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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Quote:
________________________________________________________________
"You can legally shoot endangered animals in most states, if they screw with your property."
_________________________________________________________________
This is no doubt true. However; discharging a firearm in a residential area here is illegal, unless your life (not "stuff") is threatened.
When I hear a gunshot in my neighborhood, I call 911 as either someone's life may be threatened, or a firearms violation has occured.
My young son and I once witnessed a neighbor shotgun someone's pet.
The dog had escaped from it's yard and wandered onto my neighbor's property.
Another animal had been getting into his trash, and this dog (a friend of mine's) was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The first shot didn't kill it, and it dragged itself onto the road where my neighbor ran out in a blind rage and shot it again.
This person was a "sportsman", who regularly hunted birds and other game here. It made quite the impression on my son and I.
How many other of you firearm enthusiasts are as accomplished as this sh*thead?
I remain sympathetic to the problem of stray and neglected animals, but I have no tolerance for idiots that think guns are a first resort rather than a last.
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A last note then I'm done with this...
Part of the reason I've worked with dog rescue in the past stems from an incident I experienced years ago. I was in the emergency ward of a hospital with a hand laceration from a job injury when they brought in a little girl, probably about seven, who had been bit in the face. The dog lifted most of the right side or her face off, completely clear at the skull. It was a real mess. I must tell you, my dad was an undertaker, and I've seen a few gristly things in my life, but sitting there waiting for stitches in my hand while that poor kid shrieked was about the most awful thing I've ever seen.
So, actually, if there's a dangerous dog in the neighborhood, and there's a risk that I'd judge that it would/could injure my neighbors kid, I really don't give a damn about what the law might suggest. Anyone who wouldn't act I'd consider pathologically negligent. I don't care what you do, feel free to call the cops, or the shelter, or whathaveyou. I don't care if you sing lullabies to soothe the angry animal. But if you don't do anything at all. . .or anything effective, if you're not compelled morally to act in a constructive manner? I don't know what to think. I'm fully aware that many would rather ignore the issue, or defer the issue to some vague authority figure. The issue is that you should act, and act in a meaningful manner. That's what it takes to call yourself humane. So then, this issue requires real solutions. We know what a few of those are; and certainly these solutions aren't anything any of us would wish.
Perhaps the majority of the dogs I see running around are what many call "dangerous breeds." These dogs for real can be very destructive, especially if abused, which many are, specifically to be kept aggressive. They need to be dealt with. Deal with them in the best manner you are able--but don't just shrug off the responsibility. There may be real and very terrible results.
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