Control your EFFING DOGS!

[mgeary]

Thank you for your clarification, Kathy. One thing I was confused about is that not everybody who speaks up to voice an opinion here on Punaweb actually lives in Puna, or even in Hawai'i. Now I know that the rules and the resources in Hawai'i are very similar to what I live with here in sunny CA. Thnx for that.

The attitudes, at least some of the attitudes, are quite different. The laws are the same, the resources are the same, dogs are pretty much dogs wherever you go, but I've never participated in a real conversation where people actually discuss poisoning, shooting, and/or mutilating stray dogs. We have rural and semi-rural areas here where I live, and there are occasional stray dogs, but nobody that I know of shoots or poisons dogs.

Not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm sure that it does. It's just that I've never participated in this kind of discussion.

Learning, learning, learning.

Aloha! ;-)

[dirk1609]

First of all, I'm really wondering how many of the people who are posting their opinions on this post actually deal with this problem on a day to day basis?

The reason many people here are forced to take matters into their own hands is because they dont have a choice. This goes back to the beginning of this post on page one. No one enforces the laws on the books, the dog owners of the problem dogs dont care about anyone. There is no easy solution, so you are given no choice but to take care of the issue yourself. This can be argued over all day however the problem is HUGE and there is absolutly no one here to help you. We all do the best we can to be good people, but you can only push a person so far. When I get 2 hours of sleep due to a barking dog, then get to clean up the ripped up trash can, then try to fix my garden that was ruined, I enter a state of temporary insanity. I used to love dogs, however over the last two years living in Hawaii I now hate any dog that is loose...and that accounts for just about every dog I see here. Its yet another wonderfull case of a worthless government. Passing laws that are not enforced and leaving the issue for the frustrated public to deal with. I love the idea of 5 years in prison and a $10,000 fine for poisoning an animal on my own property. That just makes perfect sense. What fine does the neighbor get for their dogs running out barking and growling and looking like they're going to attack, or keeping me up all night, or destroying 100s of garden plants, or ripping up my trash can, or stealing my boots and gloves? Oh, thats right, no fine and no one to help. Remember the wild west? We basicaly live there. Anyone that says "the poor dogs" doesnt deal with this issue on the level that many of us do. Go stay at a house where the dogs rule the night and day and get a good idea of what this F%$#ING NIGHTMARE is like. Since our government cant take care of the little problem of leash laws and barking dogs they will get to deal with poisioned dogs, dog attacks, and violent neighborhood conflicts started over these damn dogs. Sounds like the norm when it comes to the "government" that insists they are here to help and protect us.

[mgeary]

I'm just curious about this whole deal...I had no idea there was a problem of this magnitude. I went back and re-read the whole thread, in it's entirety, to understand the strong emotions many people are applying to the several different issues discussed here. Dogs barking, dogs who pose a safety threat, dogs crapping in the street, various kinds of weapons and their use, governmental agencies and their (un)responsiveness, etc., there is a lot of ground covered in this thread.

One of the funniest things that at least some people missed completely was Bob Orts' point which he disguised in a flamboyantly graphic post on how to deal with a threatening dog. Bob's point was not how he would actually deal with such a dog (skinning, butchering, cubing and freezing the meat, etc.), rather, if all you do is fantasize those things in a vengeful daydream, then you've accomplished nothing.

Bravo, Bob. I've long admired your sense of humor here on Punaweb. I got your ruse about the pigsh*t darts and the newspaper, too.

Whether you carry out Bob's nightmare/daydream, or his "ethylene glycol" neighborhood flyer ruse (just the flyer, not the anti-freeze), or Fitz' poisoning scheme, or follow the law and call the responsible Animal Control agency, or trap the animal and then call the responsible Animal Control agency, I think the point is to do something.

Internet websites such as this are sometimes good for developing heavy breathing, dilated pupils, and, in the longer term, carpal tunnel syndrome, but I really wonder how much ultimate value there is in championing your moral point of view to relative strangers if that's all that's really accomplished?

My apologies for earlier posts which did not have the benefit of a complete re-read. I thought "oink" was actually a Hawaiian resident, in spite of his obvious signature stating he lived in Florida. My bad, forests and trees, you know. This led to some confusion on my part about gun laws in Hawaii. And I completely missed KathyH's posting of the Humane Society information, which was duplicated earlier.

I really am grateful, though, to all who have posted here to bring this issue to my attention. I really had no idea, and it sounds like it really is a problem. I don't recall the dog problem from my childhood years on O'ahu, but that was a very long time ago, and maybe there really wasn't a dog problem there at that time.

Aloha! ;-)

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by mgeary

I'm just curious about this whole deal...
...
I really am grateful, though, to all who have posted here to bring this issue to my attention. I really had no idea, and it sounds like it really is a problem. I don't recall the dog problem from my childhood years on O'ahu, but that was a very long time ago, and maybe there really wasn't a dog problem there at that time.

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This is just for you Mgeary.... Just recently on Oahu... A dog was stolen from a golf course and well.... you can read the rest here (read after dinner and not before)

But in all honesty... Puna's dog problem is much more severe then Oahus.

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Damons Digest

Acceptance will take you further in life then Denial ever will

[JWFITZ]

Is it a class C felony to de-claw a cat? If that isn't torture or mutilation I don't know what is.

How about kosher slaughter? To hang and animal, to insure its consciousness while its throat is slit--oh, and say a blessing. God, can you really imagine people do this?

I find it amazing that sensible people will suggest that educated sensitive adults are incapable of determining for themselves what cruel is and is not, and it must be left up to the experts, and the ethical experts in this case, are what, cops?!?!?

That we have state law that determines that it's a crime to deny heartworm medication to a pet, but you can deny dental care to a child, or medical care in general if your wonky religion warrants it.

That sensible people are not alarmed by these incongruities is terrifying to me. Heck, if I ever get a puppy, unlikely, I must be very very careful in training it, for times have changed, and I best avoid anything that resembles torture. No slap on the nose with a rolled newspaper-it's abusive. Rather I'll do something modern and humane. I'll use "enhanced puppy training techniques" and waterboard the little bugger.

[Bob Orts]

Mgeary, I wish I could take credit for the two items I posted, but as you discovered they are things that have been floating around in one form or another all over north amaerica. Nobody said the killing, mutilation, or poisoning occurred. As mentioned, the police swore up and down that it wasn't happening.

But, just like it made many here react in disgust, so did all those honest loving pet owners who are equally part of the problem but were in denial. What do people think happens when they let little cute Tabby out the door and don't see the cat for hours? When they open the door and let Rover out to do its business is Rover stopping at their property line? Is Fido's barking a sign of playfulness at the passing bicyclist, and how would the bicyclist know? Is fat old lazy Brutus sleeping when you’re away or is he barking up a storm driving your neighbors insane?

When the two methods I mentions appear, (true it wouldn't do squat to those who could care less about their animal or those animals that are strays), it caused the loving pet owners to realize if they have no idea where their pet is, it may be in harms way. When ever these types of rumors crop up, the first thing you hear is from the Humane societies telling people that their pets are not in danger IF they are not roaming free, under the owner’s control, or confined to their own property.

Nobody who owns a pet has anything to fear about with all the talk of poisoning, killing, mutilating, shooting, spraying, or clubbing a pet if that pet is on their own property or under the owners control. It’s only when that pet is where it‘s not supposed to be and not under the owners control that a danger presents itself.

Facts are facts; many pet owners are part of the problem, yet they absolutely refuse to accept it. To them it’s always about other peoples animals or pets, not theirs. It’s about what those other animals or pets are doing, not theirs. It'’ about everyone else following the rules, but not them. And, it's always someone elses responsibility to deal with it!

[mgeary]

MAN BITES DOG!

I really don't have a problem with people eating dogs, Damon, if that's normal in their culture. Not far from here, up in Fresno, there's a large Hmong population, who eat lots of critters that you and I might think were vermin, besides dogs and cats. There was a small to-do in their paper about missing pets several years back.

Kind of a Darwinian solution to the stray dog problem in Puna, but I'm not repulsed by somebody eating a dog. I'd have a legitimate beef (ha!) if somebody eats my dog without my permission, though. *edit* If I let my dog run loose, then I've by default given permission for you to shoot it, or eat it, or whatever, because obviously I don't care enough for the animal's well-being to take care of it and protect it. */edit*

Bad dog! Bad dog!

Aloha! ;-)

[oink]

No insult intended but I'm sure some will take exception but it seems that there is some conflict between city thought and rural country thought. I assure you that if an employee of one of the large BI ranches sees a stray dog in the pastures it gets shot. Stray and loose pet dogs will by instinct chase and kill cattle. Once they have done it once they can't be cured. Ranchers generally shoot the dogs immediately. Yes, I have assisted ranchers in doing this. In the instances I assisted with they had already killed calves, but why wait until then. I've seen Sheriff's Deputies assist too. Also, the larger Florida State Parks shoot loose dogs on sight. They have learned that the dogs chase and kill the deer. There is no attempt to capture them. Again, I'm not advocating the killing of all loose dogs but in rural environments that is the practical answer. It is not considered cruel. I don't like the poison idea except in possibly special circumstances when there is no other option. On the other hand, recently in a Fla city a man was charged with animal cruelty for shooting ducks (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/pages...geId=3.2.1) at the request of the homeowners association. The ducks had over multiplied (muscoveys) and had become a pest. He pled out and was fined. He should have contested it as he would have won. It was obviously an area where the transplanted city folk had taken over the local authorities. In most rural areas he would have never been charged. I have on several occasions caught and tied loose dogs from the neighborhood that came onto my property. It was obvious that they were friendly, and they showed no aggression. They were later returned to their owners. Had they acted differently, so would I.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by oink

....On the other hand, recently in a Fla city a man was charged with animal cruelty for shooting ducks at the request of the homeowners association. The ducks had over multiplied (muscoveys) and had become a pest....

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Here in Hawaii... that would have become "Peking Duck"

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Damons Digest

Acceptance will take you further in life then Denial ever will

[JWFITZ]

Oink is right, it's a big difference between city and rural thinking, worse, as well, its basically a difference between those who live in haole enclaves and those who live in the remaining bits of real Hawaii.

The slug bait suggestion, I agree, is abhorrent in many ways, but there are plenty of people out there for whom that is a option that they can handle. It's inexpensive, simple, and it works. There are people that NEED a solution to this problem. The suggestion that animal control is in a position to do anything about the issue currently is complete and utter crap. That may change with the goodwill we see exhibited on the forum by some, I'm doubtful; but as of 9:00am this morning you must realize you are completely on your own. Firearms are unquestionably more humane, but as well we see there is a lot of profound ignorance about their usage, and some very strong feelings fed by that ignorance. As well, safe humane usage takes a certain amount of skill, and it unrealistic to expect one to develop that overnight.

As well, you get a notion that I am suggesting extreme action, unwarranted by the circumstances. Perhaps, if you live in one of those newer developments. If you drive out to the more rural subdivisions, say, Fern Forest, and take a trip down Jungle King you will change your mind about that.

Much of Hawaii is not like Pahoa. It's very rural, very poor, and pretty wild. It's a common experience for me to pick up some elderly hitchhiker, half starved, abandoned by their caregiver, trying to walk the 5 miles to the nearest crappy little store for a hotdog, nearly terrorstriken by the threat of getting mauled...