HAWAI'I: a US state or a sovereign nation

[kani-lehua]

DrJ
Newbie

quote:

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Posted - 05/06/2008 : 09:21:40
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I don't want to get into the mess of Hawaii as a state, but it and its citizens are protected under the constitution whether you agree with it or not. As such, we should have the same rights. It will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court decides this summer since they are reviewing the legality of a similar circumstance in the District of Columbia... which isn't a state either. So who knows, maybe it will change one way or another.

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the same thing was said to our Queen.

for more information regarding the treaties between the Hawaiian Kingdom and many different countries such as Austria-Hungary, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Samoa, Spain, Swiss Confederation, Sweden Norway, etal including the United States:

http://hawaiiankingdom.org/treaties.shtml


the Hawaiian Kingdom refers to itself as an, "independent State" in the following:


US Occupation:

On January 16, 1893, United States diplomatic and military personnel conspired with a small group of individuals to overthrow the constitutional government of the Hawaiian Kingdom and prepared to provide for annexation of the Hawaiian Islands to the United States of America, under a treaty of annexation submitted to the United States Senate, on February 15, 1893. Newly elected U.S. President Grover Cleveland, having received notice that the cause of the so-called revolution derived from illegal intervention by U.S. diplomatic and military personnel, withdrew the treaty of annexation and appointed James H. Blount, as Special Commissioner, to investigate the terms of the so-called revolution and to report his findings.

The report concluded that the United States legation assigned to the Hawaiian Kingdom, together with United States Marines and Naval personnel, were directly responsible for the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom government. The report details the culpability of the United States government in violating international laws and the sovereignty of the Hawaiian Kingdom, but the United States Government fails to follow through in its commitment to assist in reinstating the constitutional government of the Hawaiian Kingdom.

Instead, the United States allows five years to lapse and a new United States President, William McKinley, enters into a second treaty of annexation with the same individuals who participated in the illegal overthrow with the U.S. legation in 1893 on June 16, 1897, but the treaty was unable to be ratified by the United States Senate due to protests that were submitted by Her Majesty Queen Lili‘uokalani and signature petitions against annexation by 21,169 Hawaiian nationals.

As a result of the Spanish-American War, the United States opted to unilaterally annex the Hawaiian Islands by enacting a congressional joint resolution on July 7, 1898, in order to utilize the Hawaiian Islands as a military base to fight the Spanish in Guam and the Philippines. The United States has remained in the Hawaiian Islands and the Hawaiian Kingdom has since been under prolonged occupation to the present, but its continuity as an independent State remains intact under international law.



malia paha o lohe aku

perhaps they will hear

[John S. Rabi]

So much for the treaty with the Empire of Austria-Hungary (better known as the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy.) The two countries became independent countries in 1918.

Aloha,
John S. Rabi ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
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[kani-lehua]

yes. but it doesn't negate the fact (s) that the treaties existed or still exist with the other countries including the US. also, the kindgom's constitution still exists.

just curious? would most people living here want to be considered a denizen--having dual citizenships? would they want to be naturalized? or, would they retain just their US citizenship?

this is where mahealani kahau and her group that blocked access to i'olani palace is wrong. people were told that they needed to prove that they were kanaka maoli. to be a hawai'i national, one would have to be born here; be naturalized or be a denizen. it has nothing to do with race.

malia paha o lohe aku

perhaps they will hear

[gtill]

In New Zealand, the Maori simply fought to the death, and eventually won a real treaty which is in force today! Not a perfect solution, but they have rights and land way beyond what Hawaiians have! Kinda late to change it now, There is educatioal help which they can use, and should be encouraged to go for!
I have a Bro in law who renounced his citizensip in a hot period of protests! He regrets it now, as I suppose most do.
Sorry, but Hawaiian Monarchy sold everyone out!

[kani-lehua]

please clarify/back up this statement with some facts, "the hawaiian monarchy sold everyone out!"

malia paha o lohe aku

perhaps they will hear

[loffelkopffl]

i've said it before, if the hawaiians get united in their cause then they could change things, peacefully protesting at all airports and harbor ports forcing tourists to confront them, in about two months the negotiations would start in earnest, however the u.s. government, especially the dept of defense(offense really these days)views hawaii as a must have military base, so they won't give it up.

[morganlady]

Help the mainlanders who don't understand the sementics of all this! I know Kentucky is a Commonwealth, not a state like Michigan. I don't know what THAT difference is. Also, under Pres. Clinton, Hawaii was issued an apology, right? What does it call itself in official paperwork?
What is the status of Hawaii, the group of islands regarding the nation of U.S.A.? (All I know is the new penny began the same year 1959.)
Thanks

[Kelena]

There is no question that Hawaii was the subject of a corporate/military takeover. That being said, the days when Hawaii is or could be a sovereign nation, except in spirit, are probably over. I find that the spirit of that sovereign nation is strong. Except for South Louisiana, I have never been to a state that felt so foreign. By the way, Hawaii voted FOR statehood. Of course, by that time, Hawaii was a huge American military base and so the vote was slightly skewed. It is still a huge military base.

Sadly, if Hawaii were not occupied by the US military, it is very likely that it would have been or will be occupied by another power.

I predict that Hawaii (Oahu) will be conquered again in this century, probably by the Chinese. I predict a 2nd Pearl Harbor ---possibly an economic one, as the Chinese have means other than brute force to bring others to heel.

The best hope for Hawaiian culture is this: seduction. The world loves the remnants of Hawaiian culture. Hawaiians should build on this. Revive the Hawaiian language. Make Hawaiian the FIRST language in Hawaii. I would support that. Once you have conquered linguistically, you will be halfway there. Reducing dependence on tourism and development and focusing on a sustainable culture will also help. Run for office. Haoles will support you. If you have their support, Hawaiian culture can live again.

[Daniel]

Wow, What a deep subject to discuss. There are so many points of view to be taken in, and variables in the equation that it seems almost impossible for there to be one true solution. Our sovereignty is something to be cherished. Though we are not sovereign to the Hawaiian Crown, we are yet a sovereign people, and we choose our leaders. We have a state government that we select, that is made up of us, that is us. We have to power to choose, we just have to be united in that choice. Despite the hope that many people have in returning power to the hawaiian kingdom, it will never happen if it does not include principles of democracy. It will never happen if it is at all race based. That is just my humble opinion.

Respectfully,

Daniel R Diamond

[rusty h]

I hear you kani-lehua,

people in Alaska feel the same way. like Glen stated hawaii is a state the US military must have. Alaska is no different.

to secure this the striker brigade is stationed in both states!

if enough people get educated, keep perseverance in their goals, then one never knows the future!

like Paul once stated;
"I have fought the good fight,
I have finished the race,
I have kept the faith."

peace