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why would the discussion become moot? The price of oil doesn't negate the need for cleaner alternatives. The topic is:
A carbon neutral Big Island.
There is no need to assume that the only way to generate electricity is by burning oil either. On this island there is geothermal, photvoltaic and wind turbine.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Good point, and certainly something I'd love to see, I'm simply concerned we're way behind the curve here and Hawaii is pretty broke in terms of a tax base for the building of sensible infrastructure--and with the hit the economy is taking with a sliding dollar and rising oil--that's unlikely to change any time soon.
But, that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. I simply fear the humanitarian costs. There are going to be a lot of people who suffer through this transition and I wish that could be averted.
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the answer for everyone, Nano solar collectors W nano tech batteries & a Phoenix SUV or SUT with nano tech batteries.... That's what Ed Begley, Jr. is doing:
www.phoenixmotorcars.com
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Another turbine solution solar thermal beginning to take hold read article at this site (sfgate.com, technology section).
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/11/05/BUBTT5KM2.DTL&type=tech
PG&E embraces solar thermal power technology
David R. Baker, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, November 5, 2007
Pacific Gas and Electric partnered for 20 years to buy all power from new company. The sun's energy heats liquids turned into steam and drives turbines and generators. This effort hopes to reduce carbon footprint which California is attempting to do.
As DanielP mentioned, desperation will drive technological advances. Perhaps steam driven vehicles will be apart of the future also. Lets hope we can keep from hamstringing future generations with our consumption, greed and short sightedness. Here's hoping.
mella l
PS. How about the Kau desert? Everything on railroad tracks or wheels and portable in the event of a lava flow? Just wondering.
Edited by - mella l on 11/05/2007 06:19:42
mella l
Art and Science
bytheSEA
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quote:
Originally posted by Damon
...what benefit could we have by this?...
Federal dollars. It always gets down to money.[:0]
Hawaii has said it's willing to participate, and in theory, it's better for the environment (to mitigate global warming) by pumping liquified CO2 from, say, an oil-fired electrical generation plant several thousand feet underground, rather than release it into the atmosphere as is the current practise.
I'm sure there are going to be Federal $$, which is one of the reasons why Hawaii was willing to sign up.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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quote:
Originally posted by Daniel..I also drive a Liberty CRD, (no biofuel though)...
(not picking on Daniel... and we too are working on reducing our carbon footprint - heck I will procrastinate and go to town once a week if I can get aay with it!)
How does one justify this $27,000 car for normal folks when unemployment is up drastically - noticeably in construction and tourism?
How do you all afford this stuff? (And I am really not trying to be rude or anything).... For SB and myself that would be $54,000 worth of cars. (At the moment, ours are older but paid for, and 2 out of 3 are gas efficient). How would a family of four paying $1200-1500/mo mortgage, car payment, car ins be able to own this car?
Just curiosity.
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Damon, the carbon sequestration idea is a bandaid for the possibility of liquifying or otherwise using coal which the US has lots of. There's so much coal we could go back to driving hummers for several more generations before the strip mine wastes started piling up uncomfortably forcing us back to thinking about all these matters again. Maybe they could even be able to isolate the mercury that we are pumping out of our coal fired plants-the hugely ignored source of this polutant.
Thanks for bringing this thread forward again - so much to think about. It scares me that nuclear is being reconsidered in a new non-carbon generating light but putting those wastes underground seems even more ominous.
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Actually we do store our excess steam laden sulphur waste underground after exploiting it for a full 20% of the Islands power. Here we have the best of both worlds, an endless supply which hasen't missed a beat for over 5 years. Plus it is a proven source, capable of supplying the whole island.
But we can't use it beause Helco can't move that much power that far.(to Kona). Everything we are talking about needs electric to make it work. And here we sit on a fantastic natural resourse, paying the highest (45cents kwh) in the country. The price at the pump is the same as our electric prices, a double whammy!
The only guaranteed thing I can see for now, is JW's wood gas generator. I think someone will soon be manufacturing them (the fire unit.)
For 10K right now from Australia there's a steanm engine with boiler for sale. I'm starting with solar and batteries, but will want an on demand backup system, Plus, We might make a little change eradicating waiwe.
Gordon J Tilley
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