Posts: 2,189
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G R I N
You all pretty much know me and know that I am the poster child for these issues. I keep giving people a chance and they keep taking advantage of me. I keep on doing it anyway. I share. I trust. I help. It's not always the best but I do MY best. Guess what, every once in a while, someone benefits in a way that empowers them.. maybe gives them a little bump over a hump and they get on with life in a better way
And no matter how burned I get, I just keep looking at the next face thinking..... this one deserve a chance. Okay, so sometimes I am an idiot. I admit it. So what?
As for he community stuff, I believe in it wholeheartedly and I think PUNAWEB is just about the best example of it struggling to survive. We help one another. I have seen it in action and it has always warmed my heart. This crazy woman plans to go on believing in her fellow man and her community no matter what. I love all you guys and I will trust that the greater good of the community we are all building here far outweighs the bad done by the miserable individuals who take advantage of all our generosity.
Example: though for reasons I will not get into (but yeah, someone let me down BIG) we had to postpone the cabin deconstruction... but do you have any idea what it did for both my heart and soul when so many of you offered to give it at least a day of your hard work/time. That is community. It fits; it's been kind of a community cabin, used to house those who have no where else to go. A stepping stone to a better opportunity I have hoped. Not everyone stepped UP from there but at least they had a chance to, and that is my goal. To give members of our community a chance to BE part of the community.
Bla bla bla... Yeah, I took a pain pill AND a muscle relaxer and I am about to drift off... but you all know what I mean!
Don't give up. Keep building this wonderful community we have begun. It is a community that doesn't look at how much money you have or whom you choose to love. So rich, poor, gay, straight, hard working, disabled, smart, slow, as long as you have a good heart you belong here.
Love you guys,
Pam
Just another day in P A R A D I S E !!
I want to be the kind of woman that, when my feet
hit the floor each morning, the devil says
"Oh Crap, She's up!"
Posts: 1,727
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave M
Wow.. yous guys are gonna get in Big Trouble. Community, free will, sustainable societies.... OMG... you all should get back to your 9-5 jobs,
But Dave, planning the construction of things IS my day job!
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
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JWFITZ obviously this is coming from somewhere.
So is there something you need from your community? Something some of us may be able to give or do for you?
Throughout time man has thought the end as we know it is near, its a natural inclination, try to keep it in perspective. I often try to imagine how we would feel about life if there was no such thing as media constantly influencing us.
but maybe things are getting bad cause the neighbor kids just came over to borrow butter and I was out too!!!!
Hope to see you at the Punaweb party!
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Say now, there's a thought.
Andrew
quote:
Originally posted by Punamom
I often try to imagine how we would feel about life if there was no such thing as media constantly influencing us.
___________________________
Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".
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Ok seriously... Many of the things we're describing and/or longing for are the very things that I see dieing every day.. It's called the "small town". I will be in one tomorrow. These very towns are being abandoned as we speak. Left to dry up and the only future is the possibility of becoming a bedroom community, and this only if there exist a larger city within a commute.
I can't explain it.. But the world is killing the small town, the trust the community the neighbor being there for their neighbor. I hear kids say "as soon as I graduate I'm outta here" I wish I could explain it, hell I wish I could stop it. Yes both of the towns I will visit tomorrow have "Town Squares" and I think one has a statue. The people that buy/live there work 50 miles away. They build fences and commute to the big city where they work and, by the way, they do their shopping because it's cheaper. Oh they may go buy stuff from the local feed store but that's just on Saturday.
I see the new subdivisions with their amenity centers that have pools and a club house and parks with plays capes, jogging trails etc.. They are very desirable to people for some of the same reasons that were stated at the start of this thread. People long for the same things we're talking about here but unfortunately they/we are slaves to a world that dictates what we do and how we do it. How are we controlled? well it's simple $$$$$$$$$$ I beg, no I plead for someone to prove me wrong.. This subject is so deep yet so very shallow. We have become slaves to the almighty dollar... we have to.. I'm not calling anyone here names. As a matter of fact there are folks here, not all, but some that moved to Puna or will move to Puna to try to reject this $$$ life style. But guess what? If they're anything like me they're having to save up their $$$$$$
Our fore fathers understood capitalism and democracy what they never understood was lobbyist and ear marks etc.. Here's my take on it, in a nut shell.. Capitalism was great when kept in check by democracy but when democracy was bought out/purchased by corporate America that's when the end of the things we're talking about became just a matter of time.
"But Dave, planning the construction of things IS my day job!"
LOL.. Build it and I will come... if I can afford it...[:o)]
Blessings,
dave
Dear IRS. I would like to cancel my subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list.
Blessings,
dave
"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young
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Dave, "if I can afford it" is purely up to you, how much can you scrimp and save for the future. And since when did that ever change? Was there ever a place large or small where you can go broke and expect much of anything without years of buss ass work? Mabe goldrush days, but not since!
Those small towns remember, used to be so peaceful because they controlled their populations, (no blacks,jews,mexicans etc). That part we have radically changed since the 60s, and it is in fact a major achivement! Today anyone can go anywhere in the country without problem!
The Menonite ideal (barn raisings etc) is great, but it also requires following the complete faith! Would we be ready for that? If you try to give more than you receive, you'll be taken for a mark. But demanding work for accomodation should work or you!
Things definetly are no so bad, it is corruption (developers breaking these subdivisions up like they did without consideration of infrastructure) that keep them at the price they are, go anyplace outside Puna and Oceanview and try to buy a carport for what here you get an acre! Worse yet on any other island!
Count your blessings, it aint all bad!
Gordon J Tilley
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Interesting stuff.
Is there hope? Damned right, there is!
Optimistic? Gotta be -- bad stuff happens anyway, and good stuff only happens with initiative.
"community" / "barnraisin'" ... yeah ...
One of a few most influential days in my life was when I was 14 yrs age , and me and my brother, 17 yrs age, were trying to get our family's (very large) tobacco crop harvested -- no crop, then no money, then no farm, then no home. Father was in the hospital. The neighbors came from everywhere and helped us. Real life stuff... when you need help you gotta be ready to take it and when you can help you gotta be there, just like our neighbors were.
Anybody need anything, call out.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Dave: I thought I'd never agree with you about anything, but your post above proved me wrong. I don't think I can improve on your comment about corporate America vs. democracy, so I won't try.
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
...hypothetical(if you can afford it)quality of health care...The ecology of the world has all been shot, and the Mother Goose of Nature that laid golden eggs has mostly been slaughtered...Individual Sovereignty...the individual is more or less powerless...the most dangerous thing we have lost is a sense of community...This may well become a major difficulty here in Hawaii...a fair amount of bad blood and alienation floating around...alienation and lack of community support...we as a world, and as an island face some very very difficult times...We are simply not prepared for resource scarcity...those solutions unfortunately are lacking...I don’t believe those solutions exist...a good deal of individual difficulty and outright suffering here...complacency that may well entrap the rest of the world.
I agree with the validity of your underlying point about communities being different from the 1950's or the 1800's, Fitz, but I can't imagine viewing my life in such a pessimistic way. I'm not a Pollyanna, either.
And I do not agree with your premise, a utopian view of communities that once were, a paradise lost. The Amish tradition of barnraising is an example of communal support, but there is a lot of baggage living the Amish life. Gays, for example, are shunned. Denying technology to ride a horse-drawn buggy may be appealing to some, but there are trade-offs there, too. A strict, religious, disciplinarian way of life is not for many, else there'd be a lot more Amish.
It's easy to view the past with rose colored glasses, Ward and June Cleaver seemed to have had the perfect life. But that was a Hollywood construct, not real for anybody that I know of that generation. Alcoholism, dysfunctional families, adultery, divorce, child abuse, these are not things that just popped out of the woodwork yesterday.
I'm not minimizing the problems that we face. There are real and significant issues in many ways. Locally to globally, we've taken the quest for a dollar to extremes that have come to haunt us. The GOOD NEWS is that it is now at least obvious. People are focused on finding solutions. Discussions like this one are an indicator that there is hope. From Punaweb to Al Gore's movie, people are rejecting some of the old ways which got us into trouble.
People are people, and human nature is what it is. I think there are a lot of community-minded people, people willing to help in a variety of ways. There are also a fair amount of selfish jerks, but I don't think that's a new phenomenon, either. My guess is the Hatfields and the McCoys of the 1800's didn't get to feuding because they were fundamentally nice people.
I have faith in us, Fitz. We'll be okay. It'll take some work, and not everybody will be equally successful or happy, but I don't think the end is near.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
Posts: 2,402
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Much thought has been put into these posts. Thank you all.
I agree turn off the 24/7 news(Fun&CNN)! I had to in 2001 to save my sanity, and I found a new life, much calmer and peaceful. That isn't to say I don't know what is going on in the world. I read lots, and in doing that, miss out on the sensationalism, the driving frantic panic sold by pharma, and others.
Television had it's place at one time and is now co-opted, buy more, eat more, frenzie, be scared of ________ (you name it), and of these countries ect. But most powerful of all is the isolation it creates.
Computer gadgets for children and adults for that matter can do the same thing, isolate. Children need the computer skills for the future, but that is isolating also and in my opinion detrimental in excess. Lock yourself in your world, your room, your gated community for entertainment and safety? Thoughtful balance is necessary empowering.
I think the town square is one answer to reestablishing a nurturing community. Our Punaweb, thanks many to Rob, is a nurturing community. I think that is a large part of the draw for the Makuu market also, and hopefully one day our very own co-opt.
It was a republican president, General, President Eisenhower, who truly warned us about the industrial military complex's dangers, another way of saying corporate dangers.
Hawaii is ideally situated in a sense, a protective mote, and we can all work toward a better day.
Yes we can, so be respectful and listen, but aware of those who say we can't.
I love you guys too and I'm over here 
mella l
mella l
Art and Science
bytheSEA
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