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MarkP,
Great post. Electricity used to create resistive heat (Hot water heaters, Dryers, Ranges) is obscenly inefficient. These appliances should be outlawed. Only place that I use conductive heat is the coffee maker.
Propane is also cheaper.
Dan
Posts: 255
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Joined: May 2006
quote:
[i]
The same time the electrician is here we are installing a timer on our gas hot water heater.
Let us know how that turns out Scott!!!
Ive never heard of such a thing...
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I hate to be negative, but we are looking for real solutions here, right? It would be very prudent to look into propane and its price projections, and what else it is used for. The outlook for LP gasses in general is not favorable.
There are going to be two "alternative energy lifestyles" that will work.
1) Be very rich, and just live like you always have.
2) Utterly, completely, change your way of living. Like I mean you're going to run your house on wood gas and light with kuiui nut oil.
Both adaptations will take a heck of a lot of work, I expect.
To add to FITZ-
3. Co-Habitation will become the "norm".
Multi-Families living together to work and combine funds to live under one "Utility Footprint".
4. Moving to another location.
Energy rates aren't rising as fast in other parts of the world.
5. Live the way Hawaiians did long before electricity was even on the island.
Did you know that the population of the Big Island was much more then it is now more then 300 years ago. What did they do for electricity?
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Rally For the Plan
Posts: 1,273
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True about the Hawaiians in the past, but I'm pretty sure none of us want to go hack sandalwood in slave labor for the kings in a stone age culture, scared to death you'd get the death penalty for walking on the wrong trail or surfing the wrong wave. I don't think that sort of thing is particularly cute.
Energy costs are knowable, derivable economic figures. It is possible to completely calculate the relative efficiency of each and any type. If one takes the time, and one should take the time, one will discover very surprising things. Heavy subsidies confuse the issue, and make commercial ethanol--and especially solar look much better than it is in reality. Not to be negative, but I'd really encourage a lot more rigor when it comes to adding up what saves money and what does not. All in all, because it's possible to live in Hawaii with NO energy needs at all, I really don't care if fuel is 100 bucks a gallon, as I'd still buy it to run a chain saw.
A lot of you are going to take a real beating. Be careful. You're obviously getting sold a bill of goods.
Posts: 4,533
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quote:
Originally posted by Kahunascott
Our two-year-old electric stove has a broken oven coil. It came with the house so we have no warrantee.
We are switching to propane because of the future rise in cost of electric....
Scott - Did you talk with Dr J about the magnetic stove top?
Dr J - I was curious as to the cost of it versus Scott's selection. How hard is it to use / expense of cook ware etc? SB is thinking about ripping apart our kitchen.
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Johnnycake, get the washer you like and hang out a clothesline for drying. That alone will save a lot of money - you won't have to buy the machine and you won't have to pay to use it. If you want "soft" clothes, hang them on the line to dry and then toss them in the dryer on "fluff" which doesn't use any power to make heat although you will still be using the electric motor to turn the drum.
KahunaScott, anytime you want to change your new stove back to natural gas after they've charged you $140 to "convert" it to propane, check under the middle oven knob and look for the switch to turn the other way. If you can see a floor model of the particular stove you want, pull the "oven" knob off and see if you can see the switch to turn. That's generally about it for "converting". Sometimes the switch is under the stovetop. 'Tain't rocket science.
There is a new electric power plant proposed for up near Kainehe (Donna's Cookies along the Hamakua Coast) which is supposed to be planning on using those eucalyptus trees as fuel. From what I understand those folks have funding and local backing so they may manage to build it. Other folks are revamping the Pepeekeo power plant to run on trees. Something about three truck loads of logs per hour to keep the power plant in fuel and the trucks are supposed to be coming from Pauuilo so it seems both power plants are looking at the same trees for fuel. There has been a fellow trying to get funding to build a power plant in a residential neighborhood over by Laupahoehoe but he's been trying to get funding for over a decade and he doesn't seem to be getting very far very fast so he's basically dead in the water and I don't think that one will ever be a viable option. He is still stuck in environmental review and doesn't even have a clean air permit let alone any other building permit so it will be years before he would be able to start building if he ever gets folks to give him enough money to do it. Considering the state of the financial markets, that is less and less likely all the time, too. The Pepeekeo plant is existing and just needs some renovation to change fuels, I think. Hmm, come to think of it, they will have to get permission to use eucalyptus trees too since I don't think those have been studied for use in power plants before. Something to do with quality of exhaust fumes, EPA studies and such. It might be awhile even before the existing power plant can run on trees.
I think the best thing is for everyone to make their own power in the way that is best suited for their location.
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
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Going by the principle that the more heat it produces, the more energy it consumes, I would suggest to everyone wanting to save money to use their microwave for cooking whenever possible. A friend pointed out to me recently that corn on the cob is nicely done (wrapped in a paper towel) in 2 minutes! And it is. Works a treat for potatoes and rice too.
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With three people in the household I'm OK with my last bill of $176.20, but just OK & I'm not happy about it. We've done all the trick stuff too - changed to 12w and 26w CF bulbs, replaced an older combo fridge/freezer with a small fridge and I'm trying not to use the AC in my office but come about noon the room heats up and the AC becomes a necessity. While it's running (it'small - 1500 watts, it costs 60 cents per hour to use) To calculate how much any appliance cost per hour to run grab your latest HELCO bill and find the 'Total Amount Due' (in the lower corner) Take that figure (in my case it was $176.20) and divide by the latest KWH usage figure (located in the box entitled 'Electric Usage Profile'), i.e., $176.20 divided by 440 (that's the amount of kilowatt hours my household used during the last billing cycle), so .4004 or FOURTY CENTS per kilowatt hour (KWH). That's what I paid per KWH last month. OK, now we want to calculate how much my AC (@ $.40/KWH cost to run) so 1500 watts X .40 = 60 cents. Using this formula we can not only figure out how much any given appliance costs per hour to use ... but also tabulate the cost of KWH's each month to spot price increase. The bottom line is not really, in my estimation, the cost of KWH, but rather availability. HELCO is assigned with the task of supplying electricity which is an essential commodity and one of the three basic componets of modern technological society ... the other two being Banking and Tele-Communications. Take away any one of this triad and the whole system will fall, and we begin going back in time -- it's like a three legged stool), we've got to have HELCO so in a way, these guys & gals are some of the most important people on the island and even though I do tend to grumble about the situation, I'm glad to have power.
JayJay
JayJay
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Has anyone tried 12 volt water heater elements, they crew right into your tank, and are sometimes used to dump wind or solar PV overload.
Should be able to hook directly to a 12V PV collector of any size, the bigger the better. With a small collector no control unit should be required.
If your heater has 2 elements use one and supplement with the 110 whenyou need it, otherwise shut the 110. The elements start at 40 bucks online.
Gordon J Tilley
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