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The Alternative "alternative" lifestyle.
#1
A few thoughts.

Having my nose stuck out there reading the wind, with fuel and food prices climbing, one thing is clear--we're witnessing a revival of the "back to the land" alternative movement. Of course this has happened before, and a few martyrs have hung in there through the whole thing--but I'm going to suggest at this time things are, and are going to be different. Why?

The first "back to the land" movement in the 60's was in most ways a ideolgical movement, engendered by various books and ideas, and capitalising on popular ideas like the "wisdom of ancient cultures," "naturalism" in various forms, and a heavy dose of pure adolecent rebellion, not cutting hair, smoking weed, and humping in the brush. Of course, it failed, and was doomed to fail. The "boomers" got good jobs, mostly, and Moon Unit decided she'd rather raise her kids in a nice house, would prefer that her "guy" married her, took showers, and went to work, and the gig was up. That's been the case till very recently for the simple reason that principles(especially fictious ones) have a very hard time competing with comfortable suburban lives, jet-setting around the world, mini-vans full of kids and dogs, watching movies on the big screen at home, and the rest.

This "back to the land" movement will be very different. It will be based on the pure nuts of the fact that it is very near difficult to get ahead if you're young, or near impossible to retire with the economy going where it is going, and where it is likely to continue to head. People are struggling, and after putting in a few years pounding away at a job in the manner you were taught, and finding one's net worth to be less than one started with, people in very real and very personal ways are indeed asking, "Damn, there MUST be some other way."

However, there is a problem. So much of the "other way" and "other way" creeds and techniques that are attempting to be patched in are coming straight out of the first go around, cut and paste with very little thought about how functional, effective, or sensible such things really were. Because we're moving from "alternative" lifestyles that were mostly recreational to "alternative" lifestyles demanded of by financial necessity and maybe even pure survival, a much much more critical eye must be turned to the actually effectuality of ones efforts. This is no small task. There are a lot of people out there who simple WANT to do SOMETHING, and there is a whole industry rising filling that need. I think much of it is simply exploitative, and taking advantage of people who are desperate to be moving "in the right direction" and will jump at all sorts of ideas, and pay good money to invest in systems and schemes--and it's anybodies guess weather or not in actuality one has moved in a good direction or no.

As well, among the "alternative" crowd is often a very very defensive stance towards any sort of criticism, constructive or no, obviously rooted again in basic adolescent rebellion. "Don't be negative!" Don't ask questions about whether organic gardening makes any sense, or question, GMO's, invasive species, solar wind, et al., make any sense. Often one and ones criticisms will be rejected immediately. We have to get beyond this sort of BS. This time around, as far as I can see it, many of us are playing for keeps, and investing time and money in a kind of living that, needs to work out, and neither that time or money is going to be replaceable.

Hawaii is and is going to remain, and grow, as far as I can see, an incubator for such lifestyles. I'm here because it is a near ideal place for such kinds of living and values to flourish. Certainly, many people are interested, and a voice needs to be heard to offer mature, intelligent, rigorous guidance or we could easily end up with a real mess that serves no one.
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#2
The speech is good,but a little bit PG-13.
___________________________
Whatever you assume,please
just ask a question first.
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#3
Hey JW add to that list the multigenerational housing of pre-boomers. It worked really well for many thousands of years, until the boomers decided they couldnt smoke weed with mom & dad around, and that affluence was more and bigger bedrooms with less and less people in the house.

(now G-pa & g-ma are the boomers!! haha)
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#4
We never humped in the bushes. That would be uncomfortable. Behind bushes, sometimes leaning against rocks, in pools, ponds, oceans, cars, on futons and rubber rafts, but not in the bushes. Please correct the record.

Ah, thank god I was so wild when I was young.
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#5
quote:
Originally posted by Glen

We never humped in the bushes. That would be uncomfortable. Behind bushes, sometimes leaning against rocks, in pools, ponds, oceans, cars, on futons and rubber rafts, but not in the bushes. Please correct the record.

Ah, thank god I was so wild when I was young.

Moving from PG-13 to XXX ????
___________________________
Whatever you assume,please
just ask a question first.
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#6
The point about multi-generational housing is very important for certain. In most areas it's almost zoned out of existence. As well, expectations have radically changed. In 1960 the average family of 4 that had a house lived in one of not quite 700 square feet. Today the average for the same family is near 3000. This is a major problem, compounded by the fact that in many areas, you're prohibited from building houses of under 1000 square feet at all. This sort of thing must change, obviously, and serves no one but developers.

As well, as I like to point out and have, a habit and a lifestyle of living with the luxury of lots of space and consumption in general eliminates the much underestimated skills required to live small, and in close proximity to other people. Certainly hard stuff to pick up overnight, as I expect many will soon discover.
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#7
A couple of thoughts here this morning, I hope I'm being constructive. If anybody thinks I'm being a meddlesome preachy ass, I rather hear about it than make people seethe.

Anyhow. . .an observation.

For example: the topic on solar hot water heaters. They work, mostly. They work best in hot weather, when I like to take a cool shower. They work poorly, if at all, in weather when it's cold out, and I've spent a day slopping around in the mud in 50 degree weather, and I'd like to take a nice long hot shower.

We are getting some blanket recommendations about the value of solar hot water heaters. Some people think they will work in Puna. Let me point out in Puna you have a very wide range of climates, temperatures, home sites and altitudes. Something that may work in HPP may not work in Volcano. I know and understand everyone is trying to help, and that's commendable, but some of it is dangerously close to leading others down a primrose path, and we should be cautious.

Appropriate technologies for appropriate applications. As I tried to point out, people are interested in these sorts of things not so much because of principle or "wanting to be cool and green" or whatever, but out of pure economic reasons. From that point of view, stuff must make sense--measurable dollar and cents sense. That has been my point behind PV systems, this issue, and others.

Something we ought to all look into more closely: Biomass systems. Hawaii has bio-mass a plenty. 20 lbs of mostly dry wood has the btu content of a gallon of gasoline. The technology of using biomass systems is ancient and at a high level of refinement. For some, wood fired hot water heaters would make MUCH more sense than solar, can be purchased turn-key, and work. Wood cooking stoves, especially gasification systems, are very very efficient as well.

Another aspect of biomass as fuel is that it provides an immediate source of income: the fuel wood itself requires collection, and most anyone can pick up sticks. At .25 cents a pound it can pay, becomes a valuable source of income for those who may have no other options. The s. guava is a near perfect fuel wood for such systems, burns clean, almost smokeless and ashless. Imagine providing an income, eliminating invasive plants, and heating your hot water all in one fell swoop? Imagine having people show up at your gate asking if they can cut your guava down? Just thoughts of a technology that ought get more discussion.

Anyway.


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#8
There are many things that can work if done properly but typically are not done properly. There are many places in the world, Haiti for one, where the demand for wood for cooking is causing deforestation. The people there are too poor and uneducated to manage rocket stoves or wood gassification systems so the resource is not used efficiently or sustainably. The government is trying to get people to use bottled gas stoves to take some of the pressure off the forests.

Most of the people participating in this discussion have what it takes in terms of education, leisure time, etc to look at the big picture and make passable judgements, but the unwashed masses will not. They will go to the nearest tree and cut it down, even if it is Koa or Ohia, even if it is on someone elses property. If you have people cutting fuel lines and punching holes in gas tanks, these same people will be out there "collecting" firewood, if and when other less labor intensive sources of energy are beyond their reach. That appears to be what happens in developing countries.
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#9
Wood fired hot water soaking tubs have been around awhile, although I'm not sure about them for showers in the morning. Perhaps if one insulated the heck out of the water storage tank and heated the morning shower water up with the previous evening's fire it might work but getting up early enough to light a fire under the water heater to have a shower doesn't seem like it is going to go along with the shower and run off to work in a cubicle lifestyle. Perhaps there was a reason most folks took weekly baths way back when? One, it took a lot of work, two, they didn't work in cubicles.

Oh, just an odd thought here, did you know that soap is actually a fairly new invention? Somewhere around early in the Industrial Revolution, not medieval or before like I had always thought.

On the wood stove thing, it might work if one made coffee the night before and put it in a thermos. Otherwise the idea of making fire BEFORE making coffee sounds dangerous.

The "alternate" alternate lifestyle sounds a lot like farming in pre-industrial days. Reading about the Salatin family of Polyface Farms might give a lot of folks some interesting ideas of what can work in sustainable farming:
http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

The biomass plant at Pepeekeo says they will need three truckloads (semi-truck loads) of fuel every hour to run their biomass electric plant. That's a lot of wood. I don't see households generating power from wood, but they can use wood to heat water and food, especially on rainy or cloudy days.

With any lifestyle - there will be more than one choice and one choice will not "fit all". Everyone needs to look at their own needs and see how others have fulfilled similar needs and look around to see if the same will work for them. There is a tendency to hope for one, nice, clean, green, "final" answer, but I don't think there is one. It is kind of a continuous journey with new answers as the old ones wear out.

"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales." 
Kurt Wilson
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#10
Well, THIS household is generating power from wood, and I think others may be interested as well. It's not expensive to put such a system together.

I agree with Mark, kinda. I agree that people here have the time and education to do their research. Not to offend anyone, but in many cases I can tell they have not. It's very very clear in some cases. It may well be that they feel that asking questions on Punaweb is doing research. It's hit and miss at best, and some stewardship is warranted.

As for deforestation, no question that in many places it's a very big problem. Here in Hawaii, which isn't yet like Haiti, it doesn't seem difficult at all to prohibit selling any fuel wood at all but guava. If we get on things before they become desperate, these sorts of policies may work. If we just let it run amok, then we get what we get.

You can buy very fine turn key solid fuel hot water heaters on-line. They work, and are faster than one might think. Coupled with a well insulated tank you can make a lot of hot water, even in the rainy winter, and use it when you need to. Not a "blanket recommendation" but for many people, especially those of us nearer the Volcano than the beach it's a very viable option.
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