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Hi Everyone... I've been trying to save electricity in Michigan for a few years now. Some of the things I've done was to make sure I read my meter everyday at a certain time. Awareness of what you are using is a top priority. Everything that has been mentioned above is all helpful. I found that my Tv's, lights, and computer were the problems. Newer Dishwashers heat the water instantly so you're not using your Water Heater water. You can't really control your Refrigerator... but everything else you can. Put some of your things on power strips so you can turn them completely off (Sorry your time on your Tv's will be useless). I've never had an Electric Water Heater, but I'm sure that's your major problem for sucking power. Keeping your water heater at the temps you like is like running your car 24 hours a day because you know you'll use it tomorrow afternoon. Does that make sense? With my gas w/heater I would set it on the vacation setting. 10 minutes before each shower, I would turn it up to the W on Warm. You may have to turn it up higher until you acutally hear it starting up, then turn it down to the w/Warm (It will remain heating even if you do this). Taking the shower would only require me to turn only the hot water knob on (No diluting it with cold water). Take my shower and turn it back down to Vacation. Unless you use forty gallons of shower water, you will still have enough hot water for your everyday usage. It takes some trial an error to find your perfect setting when turning it up... but it will certainly surprise you. I found that it saved me 60% off my gas bill in winter, and 90% during the summer. In fact it saved so much that during the summer, my delivery charge was more than my actual usage cost. Awareness is the key. Find out what your using and slowly find your waste. Get a Kill a Watt tester and find your sweet spot. Check to see your usage On and off.
Finally when I finally get out there in August, I hope I can finally meet some of you. A Hui Hou.
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The energy used for domestic hot water goes two places. The first place it goes is down the drain when you use the water. By that I mean the heat in the water that leaves the tank, so that if you conserve water you conserve energy. The second place the heat goes is through the insulation and into the air around the water heater.
Obviously, reducing hot water use is a good thing and will save both energy and water. Turning off the water heater power for short periods between uses will give limited savings because water has a high thermal mass. Overnight, the water will stay warm so although you are still losing heat through the sides of the tank, you don't see that big of a temperature drop until a couple of days later. My parents in Central NY state have a dual meter setup where the power company gave them a power feed for things only used at night when the demand for power is low. Things that can be powered intermittently such as the water heater and the pool filter are put on that feed and the cost is way less but only because the power company set it up like that. In Hawaii, I think there is a demand charge on your power bill. The water heater is something like 4,500 watts, probably the single largest demand in your home. If you come home at the end of the day and turn on your water heater during the evening peak demand which occurs at 6 pm till 9 or 10 pm it will jack up your demand charge for the whole month and you have just shot yourself in the foot. At that point, in the eyes of the power company you are like a spoiled child screaming "MOMMY, I want it NOW", and they will make you pay.
A timer on your water heater would only save a minimal amount of energy, if any. What it does, if properly set up, is ensure that the water heater never comes on during the peak periods, one in the early morning when everyone is preparing for work and one in the evening when everyone gets home from work. A downside is that you have to let it do its job. If you run out of hot water during the evening, you have to wait till midnight before you get your shower. Having a large water heater helps with that. My parents have an 80 gallon heater.
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I often take short trips of a few days. If I turn off the water heater for 1 day the water is not really noticeably colder when I get back. Two days and the effect is noticeable. Three days and the water is too cool for a shower, and so on. One way of looking at it is that energy wise it is like using a whole tank of water every three days for the privilege of keeping the water hot. Keep in mind I have a very small water heater. A large water heater would stay warmer much longer.
As in the post above, the pitfall is when you turn the heater back on it will kick on full power. After midnight and if you have turned off everything else in your house, this may not make much difference, but during the evening peak, that is like wearing a kick-me sign demand-charge wise.
I don't know about HELCO, but HECO on Oahu will hook your water heater up to some kind of device that allows them to shut it off whenever they need to to shed load. You get a better rate on your bill for your sacrifice. They only do that if you have a large enough water heater though. The point is the instantaneous demand is the big deal.
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Hmm, that's true about the power company charging more if you demand a lot of power at peak times. We used to set up big electrical motors with "soft starters" so they wouldn't all start up at the same time and whack the power grid enough to set off the higher priced power. I think it was if they did that once per month all the electricity for that month would be at a higher rate. It was a very significant increase. However, these were big motors, most of them were five to twenty and some were up around to around fifty horsepower electrical motors.
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Kurt Wilson
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So basicly that is why my electric bill was higher even though my hot water heater was turned off for 3 or 4 days at a time. It takes alot more energy to heat up a cold tank than to maintain a hot one with good insulation. And if I happen to turn it back on during "peak" hours...I'm actually increasing my electric bill substantially.
Geez... You just can't win. Maybe I should just turn off the water heater entirely and live with cold showers. Actually their more like luke warm during the day since the catchment is in a sunny location.
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quote:
Originally posted by Big_Island
quote:
[i]
The same time the electrician is here we are installing a timer on our gas hot water heater.
Let us know how that turns out Scott!!!
Ive never heard of such a thing...
My neighbor did it years ago and he is very happy with the results.
Figure on at 5am off at 6pm and the water in the tank stays hot during the night and then you fire it up again in the morning.
Why heat the water all night if your not going to use it?
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quote:
Originally posted by Hotzcatz
Johnnycake, get the washer you like and hang out a clothesline for drying. That alone will save a lot of money - you won't have to buy the machine and you won't have to pay to use it. If you want "soft" clothes, hang them on the line to dry and then toss them in the dryer on "fluff" which doesn't use any power to make heat although you will still be using the electric motor to turn the drum.
KahunaScott, anytime you want to change your new stove back to natural gas after they've charged you $140 to "convert" it to propane, check under the middle oven knob and look for the switch to turn the other way. If you can see a floor model of the particular stove you want, pull the "oven" knob off and see if you can see the switch to turn. That's generally about it for "converting". Sometimes the switch is under the stovetop. 'Tain't rocket science.
There is a new electric power plant proposed for up near Kainehe (Donna's Cookies along the Hamakua Coast) which is supposed to be planning on using those eucalyptus trees as fuel. From what I understand those folks have funding and local backing so they may manage to build it. Other folks are revamping the Pepeekeo power plant to run on trees. Something about three truck loads of logs per hour to keep the power plant in fuel and the trucks are supposed to be coming from Pauuilo so it seems both power plants are looking at the same trees for fuel. There has been a fellow trying to get funding to build a power plant in a residential neighborhood over by Laupahoehoe but he's been trying to get funding for over a decade and he doesn't seem to be getting very far very fast so he's basically dead in the water and I don't think that one will ever be a viable option. He is still stuck in environmental review and doesn't even have a clean air permit let alone any other building permit so it will be years before he would be able to start building if he ever gets folks to give him enough money to do it. Considering the state of the financial markets, that is less and less likely all the time, too. The Pepeekeo plant is existing and just needs some renovation to change fuels, I think. Hmm, come to think of it, they will have to get permission to use eucalyptus trees too since I don't think those have been studied for use in power plants before. Something to do with quality of exhaust fumes, EPA studies and such. It might be awhile even before the existing power plant can run on trees.
I think the best thing is for everyone to make their own power in the way that is best suited for their location.
What your talking about is the flame adjustment which has to be done.
But to change the stove to LP you have to install an orifice (SP).
Because there is a difference in the molecular size of the two gasses this needs to be installed. I converted our dryer when we moved here. The part is about $40 and installation is $100. I think it best to have them install it because of the extended warrantee.
I had the gas company install the one in the dryer.
"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
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It does NOT take more energy to heat up a cold tank than to keep it hot. It takes less energy. It is not the energy that you are paying for. It is the power demand (rate of energy per unit time) that is driving the cost. If you are noticing changes in your power bill because of this it is worth it to look at everything in your house with an eye towards demand. Do you run a 100 amp arc welder 5 minutes per month? WHOA, NELLIE! You just screwed yourself for the whole month. Go ahead and run the water heater any old time in that case. The dryer is also a big load. It would pay to ensure that the water heater and the dryer never come on at the same time.
It can get quite complicated. Large commercial users live and die by this stuff. The rest of us are only now coming to appreciate how demand affects the power bill because frankly the cost used to be so low we could just afford to be disdainful and ignorant of it.
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Oh, how I look forward to trading my natural gas bills for your electric bills! At least if you lose all your utilities, you won't freeze to death in the winter. Even with a $300/month electric bill, we will still come out ahead. Has anyone compared utilities costs needed to run an average* house for a year in Hawaii, to say, somewhere in upstate New York? Or, say in Dallas when air conditioners are run 24/7 from April to Septemeber?
*Yeah, I know, "average" would be hard to figure out. I think it's been done but I can't put my finger on it right now.
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MarkP, You are talking abou "peak demand billing" and this is usually reserved for large industrial customers. Are you saying this is how Helco charges for residential?
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