The Alternative "alternative" lifestyle.

[Rob Tucker]

I have seen wood fired refrigerators too. Not quite sure I want one though. Not sure I need to keep 40 gallons of water hot all the time either. Convenience has it's price or cost I should say. But even if we can draw down our energy requirements to 25% of current levels we are still on a collision course with reality some day.

[csgray]

I know people in Eden Rock with solar water heaters whose biggest problem with their system, even in the winter, is getting the water cool enough. Likewise, when we lived in Oregon many people we knew had solar water preheater systems supplemented by demand gas heaters. Even on the foggiest, coldest, darkest days (Oregon in November is pretty damn foggy, cold and dark) their gas heater rarely kicked in. Well insulated storage of the hot water and a good thermostatically controlled mixing system are the key. The Copper Cricket was a great solar hot water heater which is unfortunately no longer on the market.

There is a non profit called Aprovecho who developed a super efficient wood cooking system which is easily made with materials readily available in developing countries. They distribute the technology through workshops where they teach people how to build the stoves themselves, the trainees then take that knowledge back to their villages. Many of the beneficiaries are women who used to spend most of their days walking ever longer distances to find wood.

Carol

[gtill]

Wood burning hot water heaters were common in plantation camps. We had a great 50 gallon tank made of thick galv steel with the monster rivets like on boilers. One good load of wood and ready in 30 minutes.

That was for showers, however they got a bad rap when peope used kerosene or deisel to start em. Someone would borrow the kerosene can and use it for gasoline, refilling it after use with kerosene. The next person took that can and sloshed a little on the wood to start it, and the remaining gas fumes went up the chimney, which exploded when lit. my wife's great grandma died that way. Any alternative fire project must include safety warnings and attention to detail.

I have all intentions of using wood to the max, and guava will be key!

Although I understand your aversion to wood, what are you doing about your waiwi forest? I bet a years worth of hot water would make a hell of a dent.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

...
There is a non profit called Aprovecho who developed a super efficient wood cooking system which is easily made with materials readily available in developing countries....

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Just checked it out!

Interesting.

Thanks for the heads up. Here is the companies site.

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Rally For the Plan

[JWFITZ]

The other "emerging" technology that is gaining widespread use in rural environs is bio-gas(methane) from poop in general, and at this point is something I know very little about. China especially has made great use of it and it's be a godsend for rural farmers. If anyone has any practical experience with the various modern systems, I'd love to hear it.

It's really important to realize that 99 percent, if not more of the worlds machinery is dependent in some ways on gaseous or liquid fuels. Maintaining these sorts of fuel supplies may well be for a very long time more efficient than wholesale retooling. Again it's a dollar and cents issue, but often gets lost in the mix.

[JWFITZ]

Uh, no pun intended on "emerging."

[csgray]

I remember seeing a program on TV right after China dropped the Bamboo curtain which showed the lifestyle of a "middle class" Chinese farm family. They showed the woman cooking on a wok which was fired with methane from her pig whose sty was right outside of the kitchen. Her chopping surface had a lidded hole in it which allowed her to directly feed the scraps to the pig. It was an elegant, simple system, although I don't know if I would want my pig so close; but the family said that that pig was what made them better off than their neighbors, in large part because they didn't have to buy coal to cook with. I really appreciate how "local" the system was. Fuel, food and waste disposal all in one place, right outside the kitchen door. I wish I remembered how they got and contained the methane from the pig poop.

Carol

[gtill]

The asian systems are incredible, there are unreal accounts of such innovation, but remember too these systems have been breeding grounds for numerous lethal strains of influenza and other highly contagious diseases. It used to be ignored, as it also provided a population control, but now is becoming a problem. Most of us wouldn't last a month in those conditions.



Gordon J Tilley

[JerryCarr]

The Bear and I visited a rural village in Rajastan State in India where they had a small generator powered by cow manure. They had several covered vats which they partially filled with a slurry made of manure and water. The vat covers were collecting hoods for the methane gas the slurry produced. The hoods fed the gas into an engine which powered a small generator. This produced enough power to light the village school where they had night adult education classes and homework help sessions for the school children. It also powered some outdoor lighting, a communal TV set, and some minor dairy processing equipment. They mostly ran the system at night, but there was some daytime use for the dairy co-op. We were told that there was enough manure to power much more than they were using, but that most of the manure was dried and sold as fuel for cash. It seems that with deforestation, cow manure is used by many in that region for cooking fires. I can attest to cow manure's usefulness for fires, since we used it when I was a kid on the ranch in Texas to smoke out bees and occasionally heat branding irons.

Cheers,
Jerry

[LaurelJ]

Actually, here in California wood burning here has become a big NO NO. Can't even build new construction with wood burning fireplaces here anymore. In fact our local paper just printed an article stating that come this winter burning wood in your fireplace can actually get you a huge fine if they catch you burning on what are declared "spare the air days" this is whenever there is a temp inversion in the atmosphere which traps particulates close to the ground. It's a common occurrence now here in Calif., and wood burning they say is a major contributor to the evil particulates in the atmosphere. If they even see smoke coming out of your chimney bingo your screwed. Now I may be over reacting but if they manage to make this stick in California I believe eventually it would make its way to, yes, even Hawaii. So you guys better look for a alternative alternative, but hey I have also put in my own huge vegetable garden for the first time in over 10 years, does that count?[] my alternative to the high cost of food 12 tomatoes. 6 peppers, 12 green beans, 4 different types summer squash, corn, arugula, swiss chard, three cumber plants, 6 cantalopes. Could probably ship enough come harvest time to feed all of puna. []Nope never mind with the price of fuel shipping cost have nearly doubled.
Thinking also of a few chickens again, and maybe a goat or a cow, forget about the supermarkets altogether. Better yet buy a boat and become an "aquatarian" Could certainly give up meat but never fish, anyone for a good Aku poke'[]