The Alternative "alternative" lifestyle.

[JWFITZ]

Thanks for bringing things back on track.

Many of you are pretty close to my parents age--I'm going to be 40 this year, they 60. They're reasonably comfortable, and thinking about retirement as it's close--but seriously, let's add it up.

Let's say you're one of the "unusual" Baby Boomers that owns their house outright, and has no other outside debt on boats, cars, or harley davidsons.

Let's say you're really really really unusual, and you've actually saved some money too. Say you've saved a lot, even by American standards--say you've a portfolio of a round million bucks.

Let's say your health is OK.

Sound's pretty rosy, and I'm describing someone very rare and very successful, frankly. Even during the last 20 years of unprecedented boom, nearly half of Americans end up on public assistance.

AND THIS COUPLE I DESCRIBE CANNOT AFFORD TO RETIRE! At least conventionally, or in the manner they thought they might.

They won't be able to sell that house, at least in a timely manner, because all the rest of you are trying to do the same, and your kids sure can't afford it.

The stock portfolio is going to be fortunate to make even a break even rate of return for the next 5 years or so, so you'll start your retirement years burning principle. If you do that for two years, or three, you'd better be hoping you get cancer at 70.

It's going to take a very very drastic change in lifestyle to pull it all together. Probably involving living with the kids, part time work, or more to keep the health insurance--

It just doesn't look very good.

It looks worse for your kids. Their wages aren't going anywhere, expenses are coming up, there's no equity to be had in the rotten economy, and they're going to have to shoulder the tax burden for all the rest.

That's why I see this new "back to the land" movement at some point becoming framed primarily in economic terms rather than ideological terms. You're going to have the wood stove, because it's cheaper. Ecological reasons, sadly, will be distantly secondary than simply not shivering. You're going to grow a garden because that's the only way you'll ever afford to eat a bell pepper again. You'll be into "multi-generational" housing not because it's trendy, but it's the only thing the family can afford.

I think it's pretty sensible to phasing oneself into this habit of simplicity and "non-materialist" living while it still can be done so more or less as a hobby, and it's not compulsory. It takes a lot of work, and a lot of skill, mistakes are going to be made, and it isn't going to happen for anyone overnight.

[Nalu Mama]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kapohocat
And in response to the original thread - how many of us would be willing to live in a family or FOC multigenerational house to cut costs? How many of you do?

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I would love to live that way, but my parents have both passed away, leaving me to fend for myself in more ways than one! My husband & I have been trying to get his mom to live with us, because we can give her a better place that will cost her less than what she has now, but she wants her privacy. Also, she claims that since she doesn't know how to cook, I would have to do all of that, but I already do, anyway.
So, my husband and I are doing the next best thing- trying to keep our heads above water long enough that we can continue to share a house with our children once THEY become adults. (at which point, we will take LONG vacations away!)
I tried the alternative of living in a completely self-contained bus, which was great for a few years. It was my house, car, and place of business. My business at the time required lots of travel, so it was great. I had to sell my bus when gas hit $3 a gallon. I shudder to think what it would cost now!)

Breathe. Relax. Focus.

[Hotzcatz]

As Jay says, there is a huge learning curve in producing your own food. You don't just decide to "live off the land" and immediately start eating food produced there. The garden salad on the table took a minimum of three months to produce. The steak next to it took almost two years. Both of them required a lot of fairly intricate systems to be produced. (Knowledge of what to do, how to do it and when to do it, fencing, garden tools, seeds, feed/fertilizer, etcetera.) Fruit from trees takes four years or more before you will see an appreciable crop. Pineapples take two years. An established garden can take up to a decade to reach full production.

We started last year trying to produce a lot of our own food and after almost one year we've managed about 20% of it. That does help with the grocery bills, but if we lose the grocery stores for some reason (barge strike, too high of fuel prices, dockworkers strike, big earthquake in California ruins all the docks) we will be in dire straits. And that is after a year of putting in a garden, getting the chickens organized, canning extras, etc. Building a pig trap has added as much food as just about everything else all put together.

For almost immediate food production, sprouts work well - although you have to buy the seeds to sprout. A large glass jar, some alfalfa seeds from the bulk jars at the health food store and in about a week you will have sprouts to eat. Soak the sprouts in water overnight, drain it off the next morning and put a towel over the mouth of the jar or a screen to keep it moist inside and bugs out. I like to put the jar on it's side so there is more room for the seeds to spread out. Rinse the seeds twice a day pouring the water off each time. In about a week there should be a jar full of sprouts.

Chickens take five to six months from the time they are hatched until you start getting eggs but once they start they are good for six to eight years although the egg production goes down as the chickens age. They also take several weeks off during the year to molt and sometimes they go broody and want to sit on the eggs and hatch them and sometimes they hide the eggs. They take some care and management but they are also fun to watch and interact with so that's almost fun food production. To make chickens economical, it is good to have some sort of food source for them that isn't all store bought feed. Free range and kitchen scraps if you have just a few birds works pretty well. You get lower egg production but you aren't paying for feed.

These chickens also provide meat since half the chicks hatched out are roosters and you only need one rooster per every six to ten hens. It is much more humane to eat a chicken that has been kept almost as a pet than one of those industrial raised meat birds. The chickens in the back yard have a (at least I like to think so) much nicer life than those raised in industrial barns. However, I only have enough room for a dozen chickens at the most so no more than one or two roosters and once the hens stop laying after seven or eight years they become soup. If I kept "retired" hens and extra roosters I wouldn't get any eggs and wouldn't have any reason to keep the chickens in the first place so un-useful birds get eaten around here. However, providing chicken for the table is another huge step in the chicken learning curve. First off you have to get past the "She's a pet! How can I eat Petunia?!" stage. Sometimes naming them Noodle, Soup and Fricassee might enforce the idea of eventual chicken dinner - kinda like the chickens pay their rent all at once and at the end instead of every month like everyone else. Then there is the how to turn a feathered squawky thing into something tasty on your plate. The first several tries will not result in Kentucky Fried Chicken results however you can get some really good chicken soup fairly easily.

Another part of this food production is that it is more labor intensive than going to the grocery store and wandering up and down the isles with a grocery cart. (At least if you don't factor in the amount of time and labor it takes to get the money so you can shop at the grocery in the first place.) Tending a garden (once it is set up) and tending chickens doesn't take much hard physical labor so it is suited to something older kids can help grandparents with. A multi-generational family is what was traditional prior to the industrial age. Now many folks going off to work a nine-to-five job have trouble figuring out child care. With a multi-generational family, the elders and children can tend each other to some extent. It can be a really nice thing although with the fractured families of today it seems there will be another learning curve of how everyone should all get along with each other again.

[JWFITZ]

That is for dang sure.

If you think you might like a papaya in the next five years, and might think it may be expensive, you need to plant it today.

The other good thing about sprouts in general is that a lot of long cooking time stuff like beans, lintels, etc, can have their cooking times vastly reduced by a 3 day sprout. The flavor isn't the same as long cooked beans, which I prefer, but likely more nutritious.

You must be careful with sprouted beans or anything with a protienish whey as it can be prone to food poisoning sorts of spoilage, especially in this climate.

One thing worth a try for many to really save some time and cash for working people is to fabricate a "solar" version of a slow cooker/crock pot, which is more or less an insulated box with a window in it. These get quite hot on sunny days and the results is very much comparable to typical slow pot cooking. I've cooked fine soups and stews, and baked very fine breads in these. Designs abound, but there's ways of making them nicer than others with a little thought. With a little smarts it would be easy to put a 110 element in the box as well, so if a rain shower comes through and the cooker starts to cool off, the electricity will come on and carry the heat for that 45 minutes, insuring a consistent result without perpetual attention.

Of course too, as boat people always know, there's much to commend that pressure cooker too! That will save 2/3 of your cooking fuel costs for certain.