History of the making of Puna's subdivisions
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History of the making of Puna's subdivisions
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08-06-2008, 04:13 AM
I wish it was still the Wild West. ***SIGH*** But then again my 75 yr old dad wishes the SFV still had orange groves.
I am happy we are going to focus growth instead of random speculation and carnage of properties.
08-06-2008, 04:14 AM
Be careful of what you ask for.
Many subdivisions on the mainland were created back in the 50's the same way Puna's were. Then folks started to complain about services. Now when more residential lots are needed (the population thing), the developer has to provide water, sewer, paved roads, curb, gutter and sidewalks, etc. etc. Entry level lots now cost $100,000 to buy. Then when you want to build, the county will access $20-40,000 in impact & permit fees. All theses costs add up and then you have to pay property taxes on top of it all each year. Net results from all the whining: $300,000 entry level homes with $3,000 /YR. taxes. One of the main reasons that folks are relocating to Puna is that it is CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP ! And Oh so Beautiful and full of wonderful people..  Aloha, Dan SHHHH! Aloha, Dan
08-06-2008, 04:27 AM
Daniel, What you say is true and rather accurate except for one thing... There are now about 40,000 empty lots in Puna which each have a the right to build without requirement for water, paved roads, electricity, waste water treatment. They will not fill up immediately but we expect that they will fill up and Puna might have a population of possibly 200,000 some day.
From this possible projection of the future sprang the Puna Community Development Plan (PCDP). The PCDP ia basically a question of: Would you rather have six people deciding the future of the district or several hundred? I am not aware though of entry level lots currently costing $100,000 unless it is ocean front. Mitigation fees are probably coming no matter what. But until those empty lots are filled the requirements you describe will slow down or prevent the creation of new large subdivisions (which we do not, frankly, have need of). Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
08-06-2008, 05:07 AM
quote:I gotta’ agree with Daniel, the purchase price and taxes are dirt cheap here. Back east the property taxes for a 3 bedroom home on 50x 75 are around $11K/yr. Yes the bulk of that goes for the schools but we don’t have any children. Hawaiian Beaches was taken over by the County years ago when the developer defaulted. We kinda’ have the best of both worlds. NO CC&R’s we would never live in a community with them and all the crap that goes along with them, in addition we have private water, mail delivery and paved roads. Since the County is required to maintain the roads, we are currently having our road paved and widened. They are adding asphalt sidewalks on both sides. While we loose 4’ of grass in our front yard we have the added security when walking or biking along the road. Things are good here! "Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
08-06-2008, 06:46 AM
Rob,
Water comes from the sky, or can be trucked. Paved roads are a luxury, not a necessity. Same with electricity. Wastewater treatment is required by county health dept. Some folks would like the freedom to live without the luxuries and expenses of paved roads, County water, electricity, etc.etc. When I speak of $100,000 entry level lots, I am speaking of lots that are created now with the required county water and sewer systems, paved roads, curb, gutter and sidewalks, underground utilities, flood drains and on and on. All this infrastructure is expensive! New subdivisions would be a travesty in Puna, no matter what. The ratio of total land/buildable lots is nuts. Going back into the existing sudivisions to establish appropriate re-zoning and reasonable infrastructure for the communities is needed, but new subdivisions when there are so many now doesn't make sense. Dan
08-06-2008, 07:02 AM
The biggest problems that I see in Puna are public health and safety issues. No one is willing to look into that distant future. Most politicians and planners won't look beyond 20 years. I think that a 50-100 year plan is the proper thinking.
The first is the transportation issue. Puna needs a secondary road system. Funneling all of the traffic onto belt road and 130 is not sustainable. The second is wastewater management. The new septic tank systems are no better than the cess pools. Outhouses are safer. Composting toilets are safer. A properly designed leachfield is probably the most realistic. Effluent from septic tanks needs to be distributed into shallow fields of soil that does not percolate too fast for the proper anaerobic (sp) processes to occur. I shall now step down from the soapbox, Dan
08-06-2008, 07:19 AM
Good ideas Daniel, Pretty much word for word what is in the PCDP.
Mahalo Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
08-06-2008, 07:23 AM
quote: Currently, a task force has been developed to address the issues of 130. Public Meetings will be announced once the task force has agreed upon time and places for future meetings. The first meeting is scheduled for August 26, 2008 at 6:00 at the Community Center. ------- blog
08-06-2008, 08:50 AM
Thanks Kathy, for that very interesting post. That book was recommended to me a while ago so I suppose I should get to it soon.
I came here from a very similar "subdivision" deep in the (relatively) desolate mountain West. Same deal, there were these scam developers who sliced up hundreds of acres of inaccsessible, barren land, miles from anything and sold it in large chunks to be used as prizes for fairs, boat shows etc. Of course, they never expected any of these lucky "owners" to ever see the land - much less move there. This worked so well that they sold the same lots 2 and 3 times over. Some of them went to jail and the land went up for County tax auction. Eventually, when people started to buy it to have just a little scrap of hard, hard land, they often found out that there were 2 or 3 other "owners" with titles to the same lot. Then the county was forced to stop selling it off. I lived there for over ten years and besides the hard, rough beauty, the main attraction was really isolation. There were no nice houses or building permits - no wells or power lines - and the roads would eat all but the burliest 4WD trucks for breakfast. Most of my "neighbors" were folks who for all kinds of reasons, didn't fit in anywhere else and just wanted to be left alone. The main thing anybody who lived there for any length of time seemed to have in common is the experience of managing to survive in that place. It happened a few times that people from elsewhere bought lots because they were cheap, and wanted to build houses with all the ammenities of the burbs. It always worked out being humourous. The old timers would make bets on whether they'd last one winter out there. Most did not. I guess my point is that nobody there expected the cops or fire trucks or ambulances to come save them. It was always faster and better to go get help yourself from a neighbor. The bad roads and rattlesnakes were our blessings. One time the census actually sent people out. They stopped after a short time though because nobody would talk to them, or else they would say their houses were abandoned so they would list the area as unpopulated. Everyone had guns and dogs - and mostly good, but spread out, neighbors who helped each other and watched out for trouble. So maybe this was closer to the Puna of pakalolo days. I know things have changed and people are coming here for other reasons and wanting other things besides just to be left alone. Some of this change is probably a good thing. I'm very glad to be here myself. I guess it's easy to romanticize the "Wild West" and forget the bad. The good part I hope remains in Puna is the sense of self-sufficiency. I know a lot of Puna folks have been living this way for a long time. I guess its part of the reason lots of people move here and try it out. I think it's a big change for most people. Some of them maybe just can't or don't want to live without the usual comforts and conveniences. I guess we have to find a middle ground somehow. I have no answers, just an opinion. I like to know there are still some places left in the world where a person can live life on their own terms. Maybe the people of Puna should opt out of paying land tax. Just a(n incendiary)thought...
08-06-2008, 10:19 AM
Damon,
IMHO the problem with looking at the problems of 130 is that the problem is not 130, but the problem is how to move 200,000 people around 50-100 years from now. You just can't move that many folks down a road the width of 130. IMHO, a second primary artery, perhaps through Hawaiian acres from Pahoa to Kurtistown, parallel to 130 and widen 11 from Kurtistown to Hilo. Then build a secondary road down from Fern Forest thru Eden Roc, Fern Acres, etc. across that new artery to connect with 130. That should get some stink! ya? Even if you widen 130, all of the side roads that lead into 130 won't even be able to handle the local traffic in the future. I guess that it is time for me to read the circulation plan. ***edit* after a cursory look at the circ. plan, I see that an artery from Kapoho through the middle of HPP, parallel to 130 is being looked at. That would help too. Unfortunately there is sentiment expressed that it would be too costly and difficult to acquire easments. Does anyone think that there would be an easier or cheaper time? Hmmm.*** Drive with Aloha, Dan |
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