Council to Decide on Plastic Bags for Big Island

[james weatherford]

Thanks, aprild.
Good to see someone does not have their head in the sand.

Plastic bags harm terrestrial and marine wildlife and harm other natural resources.
Plastic bags kill livestock (note that this is what prompted Council member Hoffmann's proposal).

Those in denial will 'bah-humbug' it as they do for other reasonable and necessary options.




James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[aprild]

Here are a couple of good quotes about plastic:

"Anybody that wants to learn more about what plastic is doing to our planet should pick up The World Without Us by Alan Weisman.

Here’s the jist of it…..

Plastic doesn’t break down in it’s chemical form unless it’s exposed to LOTS of UV rays. Pretty much all of the plastic that has been produced since plastic was invented is still with us somewhere on the planet today. Much of this is in the oceans and just like rocks, plastic is being ground down into smaller and smaller bits. Without exception, every ocean creature that ingests plastic can’t digest it, and therefor dies. The smaller the bits of plastic, the smaller the creatures that will try to eat it. Eventually, plankton, which are the bottom of the food chain, will start to eat plastic and die. Hence the base of the food chain will take a major hit. You do the math. And we think global warming is the only thing that we need to worry about."

This addresses the use of cornstarch bags.

"Look a little closer at those cornstarch bags. They are still plastic bags, just the plastic is small particles that are held together with cornstarch. The “bio-degrade” that goes on is that the cornstarch dissolves and the small particles of plastic are washed away. All gone! Disappeared!

Problem is, those tiny particles still exist and now they are small enough that krill, the smallest building block in the ocean’s foodchain, now can injest them. The plastic reduces the krill’s ability to gain nutrients, the fish that live on the krill, therefore, are receiving less nutrients and all that collected microplastic, on and on up the chain…the end result: skinny whales. And a weakened ocean ecology."

How about hemp, re-usable bags?

I think this issue deserves a lot of research and thought.




april

[mattastic78]

quote:

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Originally posted by aprild

Then we need to seriously consider a ban on all or most plastic.

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then you can start by getting off your computer already... []

my point is that if the environment is your main concern, you HAVE to think about the environmental impacts that banning the bags will have too... that being more CO2 in the air, which I know we can agree is a major culprit in throwing this planet off balance.. and affecting that same life chain the plastics are affecting

a simple ban on plastic bags alone is not a solution, it merely displaces the problem

those that think otherwise are the one's with their heads in the sand

[mattastic78]

ps... I'm young, or I like to think I am, but even I remember the time when the environmental push was to STOP using paper bags because they were "bad" for the environment...

how soon we forget

[Wendy]

A picture is worth a thousand words so here goes:

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dl...2/80505016

[james weatherford]

Thanks!

James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[peteadams]

Reminds me of the Maui rubbish dump somewhat mauka in the isthmus where the wind always blows strongly. Every chain link fence, every kiawe tree and other shrubs and much of the ground was literally covered with plastic bags. Constantly being blown around and constantly collecting against anything that would stop them. I've never seen so many plastic bags covering so much.

[mattastic78]

quote:

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Originally posted by hpp4me

Most people oppose these kind of bans for knee-jerk, personal liberty reasons. If the proposed law was that you had to use plastic, the same folks would object. It's just mindless reactance.

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that's a blanket statement... and it goes both ways... people see pictures of animals choking on plastic bags and they stop using their brain... they react emotionally instead of logically... further, I see alot of reactions supporting the ban because "they don't look pretty"... the same people probably wouldn't care if that plastic bag would have just stayed in the landfill like it was "supposed to"...

seriously, if you ban plastic, you HAVE to ban paper... if you truly care about the environment

ps... I myself have carried 3 re-usable cloth bags in my car for a couple years now... I take paper when possible... the last time I actually took a plastic bag was because 711 said they couldn't sell me my 6 pack without one... but I STILL think a ban on "just" plastic isn't the solution...

[aprild]

Matt astic,

I didn't say to use paper bags. I said they are a better choice for the environment. Which they are.

I support bringing your own reusable, preferably canvas or hemp, bags.

Here is my quote:

Paper bags are a better choice because 1. they break down and 2. trees are a renewable resource. The best choice is to bring your own bags.

Please read carefully before criticizing me. []

I also get rather flummoxed when people say things like: well, if you don't want to contribute to global warming, stop driving your car. Or don't use your computer if you don't approve of using plastic.

I guess the logical destination of that line of reasoning is, that if I care about the environment, I should just kill myself. (Which, actually, would be the most energy saving solution. Preferably before one had the chance to reproduce.)

This is precisely the point of this thread: we have no choice or very little choice in the marketplace. There is no alternative at present: I must use gas or buy a diesel vehicle and use biodiesel, especially to drive more than 50 miles from my home. Something, btw, that I do seldom to never. That is how I make a difference: I don't drive or fly except very seldom. For instance, I haven't driven in 3 weeks. Because I work from home, on my 6 year old laptop, I don't have to drive if I don't want to. I also have a photovoltaic system, have lived off-grid for my entire adult life and have recycled since college days in Berkeley where I also lived communally, had no car and bought organic food from a co-op. Most importantly, I have only one child.

If you want to go mano-a-mano about lifestyle and integrity, Matt, (while I think it's silly and counter-productive) I'm there. I doubt you stand a chance. But there's always room for improvement, in any life. And I think this plastic bag thing offers us all a chance to make a difference.

So, tell you what: you lay off the ridiculous attacks on me and I will reciprocate.

If you have any questions you'd like to ask me, like, "How do you propose to use a computer without using plastics?" I will be happy to answer you in a serious and polite way. We could have an actual exchange of ideas instead of spurious attacks.

p.s. Did you read any of the articles I linked to?





april

[mattastic78]

No attack meant (hence the [])... just pointing out how silly it is to say the solution is to "ban all plastics", and it sounds like you agree.

I still think it's erroneous to say paper is a "better" choice. What about all the mercury dumped in our lakes and oceans killing the fish and contaminating our drinking water? Most of the energy used in producing that paper bag is produced by burning coal, and it takes much more coal to produce that paper bag than a plastic one. Just because the paper bag breaks down doesn't make it the better choice. How long does it take mercury to "break down"?

You have to critically think about ALL the factors involved with production and tranport, not just where the bag ends up.

I followed a couple of your links, but they all link to the same sight, and I got the drift after the first one. I didn't see any info regarding how bad paper bags are for the environment though.