Mainland you can have it

[Guest]

Something that I came across while Googling around and wanted to share it with you all.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFKGrmsBDk
Not having much to do on this Sunday morning and watching this clip it reminded me why I left the mainland 40 years ago. Now I know that we are in Puna but here is my up-shot on all of this. I’m not trying to offend anyone. I suggest that you watch this clip first then form your own options.

This pretty much sums up how I, as an American citizen, feel about things after studying about almost a century of failed post-modern liberalist ideals (to be distinguished from classical liberalism which was a good thing). Only difference between this fella's pitch and my own sense of reality, is the sure and certain knowledge that for every history lesson ever written, it is a fact that people who hold power will not give it up except at bayonet point. This is the bane of humankind - sentimentality and the hope that goodness will prevail within every person and that they will ultimately see and do the right thing. It certainly was the supreme hope of the American experiment (those that created it) if we could stay devout enough to our religious values and founding principles honed from the collective history of governmental systems. It really is as simple as good over evil. But an evil that exists within the breast of all men and women. Not some underworld character that Hollywood likes to portray; rather the weakness and temptations within us all as otherwise good people.
Even though there is a new Minuteman organization (brave and committed folks all ) that are trying to do something at the southern border, most of us who know the extent of the decay within our societal system are not yet willing to stick that bayonet into someone we don't know (which to do so is certainly against the gentle teachings of our Lord); in the fruitless hope that those who abuse our American experiment (which is the best worst system of trying to govern any society of people) are not yet ready for what it takes to wrestle our values back and do a violent deed to prove and ensure their continuation. "Go along to get along" though frustrating to every one of us, is what the corrupt administrators of the American ideal amongst us count on - of which countenance I am as guilt as the next person. We all do so into the future at the peril of our legacies to the next generation. We took from our elders and did not give back resolve to ensure the future very well. At least on a domestic front. If I'm speaking out of turn for anyone, then truly my humble apologies. Here I go preaching again - one of my aggravating faults.
For myself, I am convinced that the representation component of this republic is broken beyond repair. I wish all of us good luck, but know that it will take more than that platitude and a couple of letters to our arrogant and disassociated representatives to make a difference in the long run to make things right. Simply put, reason will not rule the day. It's all about make-believe truth to bolster up some elitist's/aggrieved person's version of reality or to enable some small person's ego to reign supreme over the will of the many or even the facts of things. Perhaps you can name a few of those within your own orbits of endeavor.
Since the Civil War, the U.S. Constitution has been slowly and incrementally shredded by all three branches of government. But least ye think I am espousing the strict libertarian viewpoint, I am only a constitutional libertarian, not the social side of that political parties advocacy's (bong up dude!).
BTW, I hope you will reflect and take heed on this attached utube diatribe. It's a pretty profound ultimatum, even though I think it is a bit weak on stating the confiscatory nature of this government in all the ways in which we are taxed. It's incredible what we'll put up with now, that but for a infinitesimal amount of tax burden then, people took up arms and left their homes and defenseless families to who knows what fate.
May indeed, GOD bless America. In the two oaths of commissioning that I have taken in my life, there was always the clause, " to defend...against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." so on and so forth. We, as Americans, have for many many years been looking outward beyond our borders for those who would do her harm, not inward where most civilizations have ultimately been undone - by our own fellow citizens. Without God's law held supreme over man's law, not sure how we're going to fix that predicament.
Hallelujah and pass the ammunition.

The Lack

[lquade]

thanks for the share. but i fear the sheep are already at the corner of the fense. that too is the reason my family came to puna 30 years ago...

[Kelena]

I am more afraid of those who would destroy Government, such as this supposed Paine-character (or should I say caricature) than I am those who would try to restore good Governance. A pretty good example of where we end up when opposition to Government itself (not those who administering the Government, but Government itself) becomes armed and hostile, is Timothy McVeigh and the innocent dead of Oklahoma City, or Jim David Adkisson who killed a couple people in the congregation of the Unitarian Church in the Tennessee Valley --right wing terrorists whose motives are never examined or discussed.

Conservatives and so-called libertarians advocate the destruction of Government ("Government IS the problem" -- Ronald Reagan) because they believe that with Government out of the way, enterprise will be freer, industry will be rewarded and many, if not, all will benefit.

To effectuate this philosophy, they burrow into Government, using social conservatism as a catapult (Look over there - gay people!) and destroy it from within. Once it is out of the way --and they are nearly there-- they can destroy all programs that promote the general welfare (welfare to Thomas Paine meant well-being, and that is the sense I intend). Their first task, however, is to bankrupt the Government, as people WILL NOT allow the open dismantlement of Government. Starving the beast, as Grover Norquist says, would suffice however (Robert Frost: Some say the world will end in fire, but I think ice is nice and would suffice). To that end, they prosecute wars that are unnecessary against people who were very unlikely to show up on my lawn or to harm more people than are routinely killed in traffic and industrial accidents everyday. The Iraq War cost $10 BILLION dollars a month. This administration just gave ONE BILLION to the Nation of Georgia, but they tell you YOU know how to spend your money better than Government does --but when conservatives get your money, they give it to their buddies. They just bailed out Fannie and Freddie. The price tag to that is unknown but may be in the billions, and possibly even in the trillions. Bear Stearns? Bailed out. Lehman Brothers? We shall see. But the clear goal is to bankrupt the Government so that it can never operate again. Then we will have achieved the Conservative and ersatz libertarian dream: skeleton government. E-coli in your food? Let the market handle it. China poisoning your dog? Ditto. Need to educate your kid? Do it yourself or pay someone who will profit off of such education.

Liberals on the other hand believe we can accomplish more if we work together. Liberals believe that if we contribute to a common fund and to the commonwealth, we can do great things: have a functioning police force, have schools worthy of our nation, have bridges that won't collapse in a light breeze, have levees that will protect Orleanians the way the Dutch are protected ......and that we can go to the moon, if we so choose, and thereby enshrine our nation among the greats.

That is where we are today -- two roads diverge in a wood. One half of the nation wishes to take us toward the destruction of our government; one half believes that WE are the Government, or can be, and that we need to act as one again.

As for the anti-immigrant diatribe which was the apparent point made by the pasty fop in the video, he has a point but expresses it so poorly as to render it meaningless. The point is this: we need to insist that when immigrants come to this country that they become acculturated. As a gay person, I definetely do not want Somalians muslims coming here, becoming citizens and then taking away my rights because some God who was dreamed up in the Middle Eastern sands told someone who wrote something down on a scroll that I should be condemned to death, along with people that eat either shrimp or fish without scales. I will take my chances with real Americans, thank you. I also agree with fop-phony-Paine that immigrants need to learn and speak English as quickly as possible. When I lived in France, ALL immigrants spoke French, and quick, or else they could get nothing done. Clerks gave them blank stares. Bi-linqual education is a flaming joke. Best way to learn a language is immersion. I also agree that unbridled immigration is just plain bad because our culture can no longer absorb it. The solution is really, really clear: Beefed up Border Patrol IN AMERICAN cities -- not on the border. We can't control the border, but we can spot immigrants in our cities pretty easily.

Getting back to the so-called libertarian aspect of this diatribe, we recently had a bond vote in my community here in California. A BIG local hospital wanted to float a bond for a new Emergency Room. Voted down. The philosphy was "Stop taxing us" (They even have a website). I just kept thinking about Hawaii and the little clinic they want to build in Pahoa. I was thinking -- you damn fools. You want not to be taxed at all? You want government to get out of the way? Fine -- you will have dirt roads, no water system, rampant larceny if not worse, and you will be begging for a little clinic somewhere. In the meantime, you will have to be flown somewhere (if you can afford it) if you have a heart attack.

[Jon]

wow.... tax tax tax.... that has worked everywhere else in the world... right?

I sure did not move here to run away from the world, I was taught to do what was right, and not expect big brother to do it for me. Get involved and get to work.

by the way, the dirt roads here are better than a lot of the paved roads in some of the other "high tax/liberal states".




Transplanted Texan

[oink]

Guys, I would love to join this debate, but why make work for Rob. He doesn't have many rules. We can try to follow them, sometimes.
(I know, who am I to say? You're right.)

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Likalizard]

Communism. Been there, done that. THINK,READ, Do your homework. PUNA is alive, let it breath with Liberty.

[JWFITZ]

I think the issue is very pertinent to Hawaii.(you all knew I couldn't resist to take the bait. . .)

Common sense: How about common ground too?

Surely we can agree that diversity, in culture and ideologies, is as as valuable to a society as diversity may be to the health of an ecosystem. Diversity may be a value to applaud, but condemned once it crosses the line to divisiveness. This issue is important to Hawaii, as divisiveness is engrained in the local culture. This divisiveness obviously must be strictly condemned by all our diverse groups and eliminated.

The Minuteman organization is divisive, for example, and uninformed to boot. The reason that immigration policy isn't enforced is that agriculture, construction, meat packing, and many other industries with powerful lobbies behind them RELY on illegal labor to maintain profitability. If illegals couldn't get hired, they wouldn't cross the boarder. Dealing with illegal employment is a much more sensible and humane place to start than silly GI JOE fog light battles by the border.

I agree that the problem is near unsolvable. However, I doubt the future is what many project. I see a future where government here in Hawaii or on the mainland more or less becomes a pointless, powerless appendage. The financial system and tax base that allows for invasive public policy is falling apart before our very eyes, and if you don't believe it, tune in Monday morning. Municipal Tax revenues in many areas face near 90 percent reduction, and it will be lucky if city hall can keep the lights on let alone enforce the PCDP. In fact, I'd go so far to say if there's anybody out there drawing a wage enforcing some of that misguided policy while schools can't afford busing, or as in my neck of the woods, we lose our fire station. . .this is criminal misuse of tax revenues, chasing silly pet issues at the cost of real ones.

Glen's ideas are often very sensible and well though out, and I enjoy hearing them. He and I agree on a lot of issues(except one glaring BIG one, LOL! but that's a matter of taste). Certainly anyone who has firsthand felt divisiveness is often much more sensitive to its bitter flavor, and often more empathetic as result. Frankly, as an educated, straight, white, empathetic and progressive male I really feel I'M the one left out in the cold, and often end up being the real minority voice. Especially as I'm very often singled out as the root cause in a snap--regardless of what I believe or my track record.

It's nice you bring this issue up. I just posted a very interesting article with George Soros on my blog today considering the very same issues. Asked similar questions about what Soros sees are the widespread loss of civil liberties and of a free society in the US--who can disagree with that?--he observes that it's more or less the government that the American population wants. We are far more interested as a culture in personal profit and success than truth, and are drawn to whatever seems to best personally benefit us. Of course, that makes us a population ripe for exploitation, perhaps by design, and exploitation is exactly, to my mind, what I see happening.

The losers are us.

[LeeE]

Bravo.

[Jon]

Might not want to believe everything you see on TV..........


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon

Might not want to believe everything you see on TV..........

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Or read on PW[]

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Glob