Kim slaps down GMO ban

[csgray]

There have been farmers who have tried to sue for "chemical trespass" but as far as I know, no one has prevailed so far against the deep pockets of the big multi-national corporations. This topic hits close to home for me: I grew up in Southern Indiana in the 60s and 70s and watched many farmers in my community lose their family farms when they (and virtually every other corn farmer in the Midwest) got hit with a corn rust that the commonly grown patented hybrids had no resistance to. Almost the entire corn crop was lost for several years running and many farmers were bankrupted.

My big fear with GMOs is the same as my fear about all forms of mono crop farming: diversity is a farmer's friend and a lack of diversity is the friend of pathogens.

Carol

[gtill]

csgray, the rust or whatever it was on the mainland was the reason your cornseed was being (and still is) grown here, originally by Trojan, and now a few co's grow corn seed. In the early 1970s, our state govt, through the UH, attempted to grow a major corn crop to replace sugar which was going out. The contract would have bought every seed we could produce, but with the UH in charge it was a dismal failure, and for a reason the advisors from the mainland had warned them, plant cross to the wind, not with it like sugar cane. Long story short, the profs prevailed over these mainland advisors, they don't even have degrees.
Needless to say, the pollen all went between the rows, and a bushel put out like 10 seeds. On Oahu, a large corn outfit is harvesting a few thousand acres a year for seed. Keep the UH out of the mix and things will work. That was called Kohala Task Force, and lost millions.

[rbakker]

I don't know about corn rust, but if you want to be able to quickly protect crops against just about any type of threat then GMO is what you need.

Diversity is good, but what do you do when every existing variety is under attack?

All this talk of the big bad corporations maliciously suing the small farmer - are there any specific examples I can read up on? As I hope I've shown, the "Canadian farmer" case is not one of them.

[Greg]

What do you do when your entire GMO crop is insect, fungus, weed, mold and drought resistant and a new virus is introduced? Any farmer knows that all the eggs are vulnerable when in the same basket. Diversity is the key. Many crops, and different strains of the same crop.

[james weatherford]

"...to be able to quickly protect crops against just about any type of threat then GMO is what you need."

This is an absurd statement!
With no basis in fact.

"...any type of threat..."

Where's the science in such b.s?

James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park

[rasman]

"GMO is a modern way of applying an ancient technique"

Sorry Rbakker, there is no such ancient technique for intentionally
forcing foriegn genes or DNA into a cell by forcing it through the membrane. This is done in Biotechnology for GMOs by a number of means but one of the most common is by inserting a viral or bacterial gene capable of infiltrating the cell membrane. A cell will naturally reject foriegn genes as a self defense mechanism. When a cell is infiltrated and/or mutated we get things like cancer and/or other unpredictabe outcomes.
In nature a cell has the ability to reject what, in GMOs is forced upon it. This has many unknown and dangerous potential side effects that even the top scientists cannot predict.

" Nobody is forced to sell their crops, they can grow whatever they want"
Again Rbakker, once these organisms are released into the wild their is little to nothing we or any scientists can currently do to reverse or recall that organism and its effects on the environment.
The implications of this fact are truley alrarming. This is not fear mongering, this is the reality. It is not a threat, it has already happened. Farmers have already lost not only thier varieties of crops through contamination, but in fact thier entire farm due to litigation based on "unintentional" cross pollination. So when you say "farmers won't get sued if a small percentage of thier crop is GMO"; you sir not only do not represent any GMO company, but tell your words to those farmers who have already lost thiers to companies like Monsanto.

[rasman]

"canadian farmer case"
Which one Rbakker?

[rbakker]

Here we go again.

"This is an absurd statement!
With no basis in fact."

Please read up on how GMO saved the papaya crop of Hawaii, which is centered in Puna. If you have access to genes from other species then of course you have more chances of finding a gene that will do the job, and that expands the number of problems that can be solved.

If you use GMO techniques then of course you will be able to produce disease-resistant strains more quickly.

Okay, "just about any threat" is maybe a tad too optimistic but it sure beats doing it the old way. I hope the taro farmers don't have to discover this the hard way.

"Where's the science in such b.s?"
Tooshay.

"there is no such ancient technique for intentionally
forcing foriegn genes or DNA into a cell by forcing it through the membrane"
It's not the method but the result - changing the DNA.
It used to be done by selective breeding. Now there's an easier way.

"This has many unknown and dangerous potential side effects that even the top scientists cannot predict."
Like what? Has it ever gone wrong? Any links, news stories?
Blind, irrational fear should not stand in the way of progress.

"those farmers who have already lost thiers to companies like Monsanto"
Any examples? Links? News stories? Reputable sources only please.

For the Canadian farmer case, you may want to read the rest of this thread.

An evil corporation could indeed plan things in such a way that they could facilitate the spread of their patented crop into unsuspecting farmers' lands and then sue them for stealing their stuff.
But just because we can imagine such a thing doesn't mean it is actually happening. Maybe it is, but I can't find any cases of it happening in the real world. It's not how real companies work.

Okay that's enough from me in this thread, unless someone can come up with some good examples of mutated plants gone wild or evil corporations on the rampage. Enjoy your papaya.

[rasman]

Once again Rbakker you continue to question the source of information while making statements you know nothing about.
"it sure beats the old fashioned way" ? What is your experience in food production? How long have you been growing food?
I have researched the pros and cons of GMOs for the past 2 years and there are just too many references to list in one post.
Therefore I will refere you to:WWW.responsibletechnology.org Check outthe work of Jeffrey Smith. He is not a scientists but has compiled and collaborated the works, studies and findings of the international community pertaining to GMOs. This includes FDA internal memos released through the Freedom Of Information Act.
Perhaps your'e not familiar with scientists as : Dr. Mae Wan Ho (geneticist), Dr. D. Bellamy (biologist), Dr. T. Cox (geneticist), Dr. D. Ehrenfeld (biologist/ecologist) Dr. Vladamir Zajac (oncovirologist/geneticist),
Dr. Brian Hursey, Prof. Ruth Hubbard (geneticist-Harvard), Prof. Gilles-eric Seralini( molecular biochemist), Dr. D. Suzuki and over 80 other scientists, profesors, farmers and other well learned and experienced people have all come together from the four corners of the Earth to make an offical stance against the unregulated, unchecked release of these manipulated organisms. Check: www.i-sis.org. This is the Institute for Science in Society
Rbakker you obviously don't know the difference between selective breeding and GMO technology. I suggest you do that homework yourself as I already tried to explain in simple terms the difference to you.
Nobody is mad at you Rbakker, just those that plant and perpetuate lies to the public. I seriously suggest you do a non-biased search for information on this subject, then weigh differences. The United Nations has a web site @ www.fao.org.
The UN website has two pages listing the benefits of GMO's versus the risks. It is simple logic that if the risks of a particular venture outweighs the benefits, then that venture needs to be abandodned until such risks are addressed and rectified.
What many proponents of GMOs don't seem to get is that you cannot disrupt or take away a human being's way of life that works for them and does not hurt others simply for the sake of new venture. If ever there was a grandfather clause needed it is in the area of organic, natural life. It must be protected. Organic farming and GMOs cannot and will not coincide for very long.
A study done by PurdueUniversity found that in salmon populations it would only take 40 generations for a group of 60 GMO salmon to outbreed a natural population of 60,000! One does not need to be a botanist to realize that with cross pollination GMOs will spread even faster, even to other species.
When you speak of the GMO papaya here in Hawaii there are many misconceptions as to how the RSV or ring spot virus came to be so devastating. Before there were GMOs, our Earth suffered from decades of abuse through chemical fertilizers and mono-cropping. Put those two together and you have a situation ripe for disease and pathogens.
Poor soil health is what killed the papaya industry and the GMO situation distracts us from that fact. Why do you think even though the big commercial mono-croppers suffered yet organic, natural varieties continued to flourish here?
If you, Rbakker are looking for exaples of GMOs gone wrong, look at the Mexican corn, look at Vioxx, Tryptophan, Morgellon's disease, and the developement of prions. Prions are improperly folded proteins which eventually effect other healthy protiens. The end result is holes in the brain. Prions can form when unpredictable changes or mutations to DNA occur.
I really urge everyone out there to embrace this beautiful planet we have and all it's abundance. GMOs willnever solve world hunger as long as severe poverty and wealth, hunger and obeisity live on the same block. Nature does't need fixing, people's minds do.

[rasman]

Please forgive my typo in reference to the "Ring Spot Virus" . I should have used the initials PRV for Papaya Ringspot Virus not RSV.
Aloha- rasman