Just what the hawaiian economy needs

[mella l]

To my way of thinking, it is all manipulation. You've read about it it's called Wall Street side bets, direvitives and Credit Default Swaps, gambling with other peoples monies with no cash down!!!

Whether holiday[]shopping the black Friday sales, to the price of electricity, groceries or the cost of a barrel of oil, to housing prices! Market manipulations ALL.

The only power we as individuals have is to opt out of the race. Seems to have partially worked with the price of petrol. So need less, spend less where possible and get off of the consumer tread mill, you'll be happier! Prices in general will come down, land fills will be somewhat spared, and perhaps the greening of the world will begin.

mella l

"Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong....because sometime in your life you will have been all of these."

[Mitzi M]

quote:

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We have some lovely wood here... maybe we need some more furniture making. Ohia tables and chairs, bookcases? It seems first off, we need a good mill. The few small towns we have experience with all had mills. Seems like a no-brainer. ?????

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originally posted by pslamont

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I am certain that if it weren't for the characteristics that make 'ohi'a wood nearly impossible to use as lumber, there would probably be none left. During the late 1800's hundreds of acres of 'ohia's were cut in Puna and exported to be used as railroad ties in California. But it was soon discovered that once the wood dries it is almost impossible to drive a spike or nail into. Any ties that were spiked while not completely dry twisted as they dried and had to be removed.
So acres of pristine 'ohi'a forest became heaps of logs that were never even used.

They're not like pines - they grow very slowly. So if you cut them down new ones won't grow back to the same size in our lifetimes or those of many generations to come. Depending on growing conditions, it may take 200 years or more for an 'ohi'a trunk to reach even a foot in diameter. Hard to make a case for sustainable harvest here.

If you really need to clear them to make room for your house then I think salvaging the wood is great. If you peel them and stack them they can make beautiful posts. If you mill them right away you can get some nice pieces for flooring and such. My partner uses salvaged 'ohi'a to make picture frames - he goes to a couple guys he knows with small home mills.

Koa is a much easier to work with and is a much more desireable wood for furniture and art. Unfortunately, this attribute and clearing for cattle has led to it's scarcity. I hear about some experimental plots where they are being farmed for timber, which I think is a whole lot better than going after the last few left in the forest. I seem to remember they say the first harvest would be in about 40 years from planting. I say salvaged wood is the way to go on this one too.

There are some other really nice woods from other places that grow pretty well here with less turnaround time like pheasantwood and even litchee, and mango. At this point, it makes me cringe to think about using our slow growing native forest woods for anything - unless they are salvaged.

Aloha,
Mitzi

[dakine]

There is a local mill in the Volcano area, and ohia is as desirable, if not more so, than koa. At least that is what I was told by one of the owners of the mill. That there is more demand for ohia and they get close to as much money for it as they do koa. The problem he said is getting wood to mill. Not too many people giving up their trees these days. Ohia is better to the miller than koa, which has more rot and variations in grain that account for a greater loss of material than does ohia. Ohia does have the stability problems that Mitzi mentioned, but so does eucalyptus, and they both make beautiful floors. Examples of both are all over the island. One of the desirable aspects of ohia is it's high concentration of creosol which in many cases keeps it from rotting for years.

We grow koa, have planted several acres to date, and are encouraged to think we will begin to see harvestable trees within 20 years of their planting, though our goals are to reforest rather than purely grow timber, we do plan on thinning, and as soon as we have trees that are mature enough to go to mill, those we thin will do so. I hope that the 20 years model is closer to reality than Mitzi's 40 years. I have always thought of the trees as making some contribution towards our retirement. At 40 years out it'll be more like the kids retirement than ours.

[Hotzcatz]

There was a book published within the past several years on growing koa on this island. I forget the name, but it was very comprehensive. Depending on your area and rainfall, you should see the harvestable trees starting within your timeframe of twenty years, I believe.

Koa do have fairly delicate root systems as well as being tasty to cattle while the trees are young so cattle and koa don't do well together. We were looking at reforesting some old cane land with koa at one time so we were looking for things to use the land for while waiting for the koa to grow. Free range chickens and ducks would work well on young koa forests as well as a private shooting reserve if you have enough land.

[Kapohocat]

I know I am detouring from the detour but here is an interesting website on Voluntary simplicity.

and of course the is the freecycle Big Island that is doing a "christmas wish list" right now.

and to buy and sell / barter Sunshine Unlimited

Is it possible that we can lower the amount of "stuff" we need to ship in? (except for TP & Rice - and some people are growing rice!)

[gtill]

Damn shame we couldn't recycle albesia into TP, somthing worth looking into. It seems only revenue generators for HELCO get tax backup from the state. Mabe no one remotely associated with gov should be allowed to hold HELCO YB or Matson stock.

[Guest]

Matson didn't get into business just to ship your stuff. They are in business to make profit.
Oh yeah, if they have to ship you stuff to make a profit, then they will do it.

If they charge to much then their volume goes down and so will their profits.
When you run a business you have to charge as much as the market will support.

Would any of you go to your employer and try to negotiate a lower salary for your self?
If your employer offer you a 2.5% pay raise would you refuse it on the grounds that it is inflationary and will drive up prices?

We should not complain about prices, we should be glad we have companies like Matson as a resource.

If anyone thinks they can offer a better or cheaper service, knock yourself out this is a free country.

Helco is a different deal, they have you by the short ones. The solution there is to conserve and go off grid.
Going off grid is easier in Hawaii since you don't have to use vast amounts of energy to heat and cool your home.

[gtill]

Esnap, Matson sails under a state protection racket called the Jones Act, No foreign ships can haul between Mainland and Hi. Jones act was concoted by the unions, and by following it, we pay by far higher shipping fees than free trade would provide.
This was a Dan Inouye concotion.

[EightFingers]

Dakine, interesting about the ohia. we have an "estimated" 2500 trees on our "lot". My plan was to remove just enough for our house pad/yard/driveway and barn, have them milled and use the lumber to build some of my furniture and make some decent looking trim and cabinets. I can't imagine bulldozing and burning all those trees....

[Guest]

Gtill,
I could not agree with you more. Unions taint everything they touch. But I don't have too big of a problem having certain industries protected from foreign interest.

Are there not any competitors, like Pasha and others?