Posts: 1,581
Threads: 26
Joined: Jun 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Jon
And yes Texas has oil fields... but the Gasoline has to be shipped around just like everywhere else. I find it hard to believe that it costs a $1.00 a gallon to ship it here. My guess the state is in bed with the current provider and I bet the county wont let anyone build a new storage tank/distributor facility. That way someone makes a killing on the all of it.
Like the mainland, Hawaii refines crude into end user products. But unlike the mainland, Hawaii doesn’t have inter island pipelines or excess supply distribution markets. All refined products must be actually shipped by truck and ships for local consumption or sale. Crude refined in the midwest isn't trucked from Texas oil fields, or east cost tanker unloading points, it's piped to the refineries through a distribution pipeline network. The cost is cheap via pipelines. Even refined gasoline isn't loaded in tankers and driven from one part of the country to another, it's piped.
You can not compare Hawaii's refinery process to the mainland. Since all refining is done right here for use here, the full cost of the entire process is shouldered by the local consumers. If production starts to exceed demand, they slow or shut down, with that cost reflected in the price. On the mainland, they broker the excess to other distributors who have demand keeping the cost lower. Likewise, if demand starts to exceed supply, they can't just call Kinder Morgan who opens some valves and thousands of gallons an hour of gasoline starts flowing into the local tank farm.
People, you are on an island in the middle of an ocean, what part of higher cost don't you understand?
Posts: 507
Threads: 64
Joined: May 2008
Higher costs, okay, stands to reason. But 45% higher? ($2.63 vs $1.81 mainland average on Dec 1st)
That's a big margin someone could be getting a piece of, like Costco on the West side. Why isn't it happening?
Posts: 859
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2008
I understand it quite well...
There is some force that keeps simple economics from working here. A simple storage system in Hilo and purchase the refined product from the mainland, sell the product 20% higher than the purchase cost and it would still be cheaper than the current Hawaiian prices.
Probably some law that says all the Gasoline sold in Hawaii must come from a Hawaiian refinery. And no one can build another one.
Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
If the cost of living in Hawaii was equal to that of say Houston, that includes everything from gas, milk, eggs, real estate, energy, Hawaii would have the population density of Hong Kong. It would be paradise paved
If you have a problem making enough money to get what you want, then you need to readjust your Work to Want ratio. it is free to walk, ride a bike or take a bus.
Or just do like the "chosen one" says, put more air in you tires. yeah, that's the ticket.
Posts: 859
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2008
In other words...
You like the fact that someone gets rich off gouging Hawaiians.
Sorry, I don't.
Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
Posts: 1,243
Threads: 55
Joined: Feb 2008
I agree with the Work to Want Ratio ... that is really true. And let's NOT forgive that we do live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean... it is natural to assume that what has to be shipped to us is going to be costly. Gas is one of those things. There are companies that take advantage of us as well.
The bus system in the Hilo area is actually quite extensive for the size of the community and I find it unbelievable that it is FREE (though your backpack costs $1)
Gas on the mainland is all over the board... we live in the SF Bay area (till January) and Chevron's HEADQUARTERS are just 5 miles from my house. We are still paying very high prices, though they have gone down a bit. They are basically the same or more than Hilo prices across the board. We lived in Chicago and there prices were also high. Much of it has to do with the taxes added to gas.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com
Posts: 1,581
Threads: 26
Joined: Jun 2007
As we look at gasoline prices, it seems people expect that when crude prices drop, gasoline prices should have dropped as fast and as low. That's fine with the exception that when crude prices rose as high as they did, gasoline prices DID NOT RISE at the same rate and as fast as crude prices. Did anyone send a Thank You box of chocolate to the oil companies? Did anyone call their elected representative demanding an investigation into why oil companies DID NOT raise prices as high as they should have? Who wrote a letter to the editor about some secret conspiracy of the oil companies to not charge the true high cost of gasoline? [V]
Jon,
Nope, not saying that at all.
I am just a free marketeer. I make money in my businesses by offering the same or higher quality stuff for less than my competitors.
I never put a gun to anyone's head to buy my stuff, in fact if they don't have a good attitude, I just wont sell to them... It's my stuff
In a free market environment you can not and should not allow monopolistic or predatory businesses to exist.
There are many things I can't afford, but I don't complain, I just work to earn what I need and want.
Everyone in business is doing it to make a profit, but I think things like Helco are monopolies and should have to be non-profit or somehow invite competition.
Competition sharpens the pencil, the mind, stops waste and lowers prices.
Helco's competition is YOU! You can opt out of their customer base incrementally through conservation and totally by setting up some solar etc.
(I recommend a combination of the two)
Buying electricity from someone is like renting, it is a never ending cycle of dependency just like being a tenant farmer sharecropping for a land lord.
My goal in life is not to make lots of money, but to not need lots of money.
I accomplish this through thrift and I deny myself many things like eating out, soft drinks, Star bucks, Buying paper towels etc. I consider these things to be extravagances that I can not and will not Afford.
By doing these things it allows me to lay out the money for an alternative energy system and not be at the mercy of some Hui selling electricity.
They say take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.
But we live in a world where poor people buy paper towel, soft drinks and prepared food and wonder where their money went. The thought of just drinking water seems to elude them somehow.
Posts: 859
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2008
you better shop around some...
Hilo - 2.67 average (51.0 cents of that is Hi. gas tax)
SF - 1.97 average (63.9 cents of that is Ca. gas tax)
http://www.californiagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx
http://www.hawaiigasprices.com/Hilo/index.aspx
http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/San_Fran...index.aspx
I am sorry, it does not cost $1.00 to ship a gallon of any product to Hawaii. Especially in bulk.
quote:
Originally posted by Devany
I agree with the Work to Want Ratio ... that is really true. And let's NOT forgive that we do live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean... it is natural to assume that what has to be shipped to us is going to be costly. Gas is one of those things. There are companies that take advantage of us as well.
The bus system in the Hilo area is actually quite extensive for the size of the community and I find it unbelievable that it is FREE (though your backpack costs $1)
Gas on the mainland is all over the board... we live in the SF Bay area (till January) and Chevron's HEADQUARTERS are just 5 miles from my house. We are still paying very high prices, though they have gone down a bit. They are basically the same or more than Hilo prices across the board. We lived in Chicago and there prices were also high. Much of it has to do with the taxes added to gas.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com
Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
Posts: 859
Threads: 10
Joined: May 2008
no, the price of gasoline lags behind crude oil going up and down. That is not a problem, that information can be found on the net.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts
As we look at gasoline prices, it seems people expect that when crude prices drop, gasoline prices should have dropped as fast and as low. That's fine with the exception that when crude prices rose as high as they did, gasoline prices DID NOT RISE at the same rate and as fast as crude prices. Did anyone send a Thank You box of chocolate to the oil companies? Did anyone call their elected representative demanding an investigation into why oil companies DID NOT raise prices as high as they should have? Who wrote a letter to the editor about some secret conspiracy of the oil companies to not charge the true high cost of gasoline? [V]
Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
|
