Earth Day 2008

[PaulW]

Thanks for the tip, but I already have.

Maybe you can learn how to spell the name of the company in question.

[PaulW]

Another example of the evil being perpetrated:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8020925.stm

[JWFITZ]

Jon, you're missing the point. The difference between you and the vast majority of the rest of that 7 billion is that you have the MEANS to inform yourself. There is a far too much willful ignorance out there, where people keep their heads in the sand because it makes them feel better. Ignorance is forgivable. Willful ignorance isn't.

As for Paul, I apologize for the misspelling. It's a habit coming from the town of Montesano on the WA. coast near Aberdeen where I've spent far too much time. I'm legendary for my complete lack of proofreading anyway, as many no doubt would attest. Bad typers of the world, UNTIE!

Since that critical detail, central to the conversation, that without due correction would destroy the credibility of everthing in question--now that the spelling involved is cleared up--whew! We can move on. Since you're a fan of Montasano, and of Wikipedia as being fair and impartial, perhaps check out the wiki on that company and tell us if that's who you'd like controlling a majority share in the world food supply.

So, to convince there are no "personal" disagreements in this discussion: Obviously not. There is no discussion. Don't take anything personally, and no offense intended. I find human beings tend to respect each other. "Web Presences" on the other hand are pretty bold. It doesn't look to me that we either have "discussions" or "persons" involved here. As as is far too often it is only a shouting match, or a pack of barking dogs. Here's the key. I'm convinced I'm playing tennis with a couple of people, with the net down, who have demonstrated the intent to call every ball they hit IN bounds, and every one I hit OUT of bounds. Not just in this topic but several, and over a period of history. It isn't personal in the slightest, as I know I can't win with a obstinately contrariwise mentality, except with the greater readership. Even if they lost fairly I'd get called a cheat. So, I'm just going to make this silly game explicit. It's best to view this sort of conversation not as a one on one, but as an endless series of billboards proclaiming one ill founded thing thing after another. I'd much rather that we entered discussions where people cooperatively endeavored to find the truth through the conversational process. But, really, a choir is only a strong as its weakest voice and a argument is only as good as its cheapest shot, so in this environment crude remedies are forced to suffice. While people remain more interested in personally winning than moving closer to informed positions this is where we end up.

[Greg]

The wikipedia article was informative and well documented.

I learned that if I had a field downwind from a monsanto field, and my field was contaminated by their drifting GMO polin, I would be sued by their multimillion dollar legal team. (for theft of their genetic material)

I learned that if I produced organic dairy products and advertised that my milk didn't contain Bovine growth hormones, I'd be sued by their multimillion dollar legal team. ( It would "hurt" their image)

Are these situations disputed by anyone here? Are these practices defensible?

Not without a multimillion dollar legal team.

punatoons

[aprild]

That Wikipedi entry didn't allay my fears about GMO seeds at all. Just reconfirmed them.

Paul, the seeds are NOT resistant to bugs, et al, they are resistant to ROUND UP which has the same chemical basis as Agent Orange. If you love your food sprayed with 24D-254T -- go for it!

I'm not trying to change your mind or convince you of anything. I doubt that could happen.

The County I am from -- Mendocino -- is mentioned in that Wikipedia entry, btw. Where, yes, we banned GMO crops.

On Maui now and hearing about a lot of increase in cancer rates -- everywhere.




april

[PaulW]

GMO can be used to make seeds resistant to many thing, bugs and Roundup.
I'm no chemist, but the formulas for Roundup and Agent Orange look totally different to me.
What does your hearing about an increase in cancer rates (in Maui?) have to do with anything?

[PaulW]

Greg, I also think (after reading that article) that Monsanto relies on their lawyers too much
but in cases like the Canadian farmer they definitely had a point - and that's why they won.
As for the BGH case, they haven't been too successful with that, and I hope it stays that way.

[aprild]

Maybe gmo seeds CAN be made to be resistant to anything---but the fact is that they HAVE been made to be resistant to Round Up, not bugs.

Paul, I reserve my right to post anything I want. But to be nice I will connect the dots for you: toxins in the environment are very likely raising cancer rates.

You answer pertinent questions with questions. So I just read between the lines and gather you don't care to answer the question.

I take it you are talking about Percy Smiser... Having heard this man speak, he definitely did NOT want to be growing gmo seeds and he chose to fight for his rights.

april

[Greg]

The canadian farmer didn't steal Monsanto's genetic material. It drifted onto his field. The fact that his field was 95% contaminated doesn't speak to his larceny; it speaks to the lack of control Monsanto has over it's product.

punatoons

[PaulW]

The court decided differently, after hearing all the evidence.