Lingle cuts 3 days a month to all state employees

[Bob Orts]

For what its worth, a small item almost overlooked, the government and unios are in contract negotiations. So not sure how much of all this is just posturing for the contract. Both sides are doing exactly what we would expect in a contract year.

[David M]

Last try - We no longer have a GM dealer on BI (hence no service. While one might blame the dealer as solely responsible for going out of business, when you connect ALL the dots, it goes back to the actual products and the union contracts associated with those products.

Locally, it's likely posturing as very few here find the unions in any bad light- only saviors for the poor and overworked.

David

Ninole Resident

[Seeb]

back to the 3 day thing, how do you do that for positions that have to be staffed 24/7

[Bob Orts]

The Governor does not have to figure out how it will work, only issue the directive to furlough workers. The agency heads will need to try and make it work. Normally, the across the board decision is made at the top, but as the rubber hits the road, agency heads will come back with exemptions because it just can’t work. This gives the Governor the ability to play both sides. She made the hard decision but didn’t mean for it to reduce necessary service. It will only be years later when all the facts and figures are in, will people be able to see the claims of the decision versus the ultimate reality. By then, we’ll all be concentrating on something else and won’t care.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by David M

Last try - We no longer have a GM dealer on BI (hence no service. While one might blame the dealer as solely responsible for going out of business, when you connect ALL the dots, it goes back to the actual products and the union contracts associated with those products.

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I have no problem with connecting the dots to see the picture, but there is a problem when only certain dots are chosen to be connected OR dots are made by filling in the circles of unrelated letters, OR dots on punctuation marks are used as stand alone dots just so they produce the picture one wants to see.

The UAW CBA with GM is not part of any dealer business. As a matter of fact, 13 other GM dealers on Hawaii are successful, selling the same cars and trucks as this dealer. And those cars and trucks come with the same shipping, reliability, quality, and union contract baggage. So why does 13 other dealers in the Sate not shutting their doors like this dealer if the products are the same with the same union contracts associated with them?

Lets take it a bit further, How is Ford, a company with a similar product line and equal union labor contracts at their plants? Oh, they were hurting and such and needed federal money UNTIL they realize that there are accountability issues. Suddenly they are not as bad as they through and said. Yet they have a union labor contract at their factories.

But I guess the proof lies with union versus non-union. So, how do Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, or Suzuki, stack up against GM and their union made vehicles. Are those selling any better or are they also feeling the economic pinch. Toyota is financially hurting. Is the Corolla or Tacoma down in sales or is it only their large gas guzzling SUVs? Honda is holding their own but they have few large pickups and SUV’s in their lineup.

If blame is to be placed on a dealer closing because of a labor contract the manufacture has, might as well blame the country that produced the rubber for the tires, or Japan for the radios, or the farmers who grew the cotton for the seats, or the oil company that made the grease, or Hawaii Styate for the taxes, or the County for having too small a road by the dealer, or Puna for not buying enough new vehicles, or Punaweb for not promoting the dealership, or.......

[David M]

Union contracts impacting wages, benefits, and work rules impact the cost of the goods or services produced which impacts the ability and willingness of the consumer to purchase.

Taxpayers are impacted by the costs of services provided by the workers whose union contracts impact wages, benefits, and work rules that impact those costs.

Bob - you can dress a pig in ruffles and frills, even put a bow on its tail and call it Peggy - but it's irrefutably still a pig.

David

Ninole Resident

[Kahunascott]

quote:

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Originally posted by macuu222

Maybe it has something to do with seniority and how senior employees would rather lose people than reduce their own salaries. It's a selfish attitude to take...but when it comes down to your own families survival...you do what you have to do.

If the unions refuse the furloughs...and the governor orders layoffs...then those people that have been working for many years who have senority will still have their jobs and not have to take a wage cut and the people with fewer years would be gone to make up for it.

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Seniority is one of the issues I would never understand and its part of the “Union Mentality” that I will never accept. Yes, I was a Teamster for a few years in the highly unionized State of New York. I worked with this other Teamster that had seniority on me and this guy was a real slug. He would do as little as possible, call in sick whenever and cost the company a ton of money. I would run circles around this guy producing way more then he could. When ever a promotion became available he was first on the list for the job, why, cuz’ he was senior man. He didn’t get the promotion because he was the BEST candidate he got it because he was employed the longest.
This example is just one of many that damages the companies production, increases cost and lowers profit. Multiply this by thousands of employees hundreds of cases and all it leads to is the ever growing soup line.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by David M

Bob - you can dress a pig in ruffles and frills, even put a bow on its tail and call it Peggy - but it's irrefutably still a pig.

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And you can dress a watermelon in pig ears, a snout, shove a pink curly pipe cleaner in its back and call it piggy all you like, but it’s still a watermelon

quote:

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Originally posted by David M

Union contracts impacting wages, benefits, and work rules impact the cost of the goods or services produced which impacts the ability and willingness of the consumer to purchase.

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The Hawaii dealership closed because of a strategic mistake in market forecasting. If the union factor you mentioned was a main reason, why can 12+ other GM dealers on Hawaii stay open selling the same line of vehicles from the same manufacture with the same “union’ weight attached?

Don’t forget, the inventory isn’t heading for some flea market yard sale; it’s heading to the lots of the other GM dealers, who by the way, don’t see anything detrimental in the cost of the product. It appears this was a dealership that had collateralized not only its inventory, but everything, lock stock and barrel to the point it was repossessed by the finance company.

Until the economic implosion, the dealer was profitable as was GM. After the economic implosion, they tanked under the weight of credit calls from their creditors. There are thousands of non-union businesses who do not sell union products who also closed their doors. What is the excuse for them? At least 12 other GM dealers on Hawaii have not closed, Why?

Oh, and one last little item that I’m sure isn’t going to be addressed, but, TOYOTA AND HONDA DEALERS HAVE ALSO BEEN SHUTTING THEIR DOORS, whats the excuse for them since they don’t have union contracts?

[the hare]

tell me where Toyota and Honda have closed down????

[Bob Orts]

Toyota and Honda do not use the word "Close" they use the terminology "Consolidation" or "Realignment".

It goes like this. ABC Toyota is loosing money and is facing a severe credit crunch because they stocked up on the large SUV's that are not moving. You also have XYZ Lexus dealer whose market share has plummeted and they are in danger of closing although they have capital but not enough buyers. Those two are paired with 123 Scion who is still doing well. Toyota brokers the consolidation and they become A1Z Toyota, Lexus, Scion, with Toyota providing money to keep the three afloat. Toyota does not allow the dealers to be labeled as closed only consolidated for customer satisfaction. You see this all the time when a Toyota dealer is located at one end of a street, a Lexus at another, and a Scion across the street. Suddenly you drive by and all three are close but a big brand new dealer is open with all three names.

Honda is a bit trickier since often the Honda and Acura dealers are right next door so the closure of one and moving the sign to the open one makes it look like they both are still there, when they are now one. Complicating this is Honda often will maintain reasons that have nothing to do with bad sales, but claim something else like maybe a property issue. But again, people have seen the number of dealers reduced.

Another tactic is to keep a struggling dealer open while pulling the plug on a new dealer. They could allow the new dealer to buy the open dealer or work out some other deal, but the result is that no dealer was "closed". This is what many say occurred in Oakland where the Toyota dealership was built, stocked and all set to open and pow, down came the sign and the doors never opened. But suddenly the nearest struggling dealer had a facelift.

Now this is not new. When auto nation purchased many dealerships years ago and combined them, they did the same thing. Just at that time there was no national focus or national newsworthiness in a dealership closing so when it happened nobody cared. If a dealership closed, due to that type of arrangement, maybe it made local news or some talk at a Chamber of Commerce meeting, but nobody was counting. And at that time the manufactures didn’t care if you use closed, shuttered, consolidated, or beamed into outer space. If that happened today, it would be front-page news.

But just drive around and you'll see in many mainland cities the sudden disappearance in the last year of single Honda, Acura, Toyota, Scion and Lexus dealers and the appearance of combined dealerships. So where there were once three separate dealers, now there is only one with all three signs.

Anyway, why do we care what they call it? Its still basic American capitalism and free market at work. And if the dealer just went bust, so what, thousands of other businesses in the US have gone bust because of the financial crises.