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In the whole constellation of this nation a private property owner should also be able to build without a plan. Harvest what they can find and or buy, be it a tree that stands on their property or a load of dirt they buy from a neighbor. They should be allowed to arrange it and other things how they see fit. In this sense one can simply classify it as art or a sculpture in which they choose to sleep eat and hang out in. Residential architecture has become stagnant in this country; it is a dying art form when applied to residential application because it has been choked by bureaucratic BS.
One of the things I really enjoy in the state of Hawaii is finding very odd homes, some are made of mud and many other things, each very creative, unique and a tribute to human creativity, most non-permitted. These are the gems on the island. This is the beauty of freedom and the other permitted or copy of the permitted is the ugliness and stagnant nature bore by governing.
I am disgusted by all the mainland designed homes on the island. They are just as ugly in Hawaii as they are within the mountains they were designed to be in. Homes are not designed in Hawaii that match the environment.
The only thing the government should concern themselves with regarding a house is the sewage handling and IF tied into the municipal power grid… how it’s wired inside and how it is to be insulated if using heat or AC but only IF tied to the grid. They can also concern themselves with water cisterns with regard to them being sealed from mosquitoes and if a house is to use municipal water how the water supply is handled. The house should also be subject to the zoning regulations as per setbacks and other such applicable issues. Anything beyond those matters are strictly private and of no concern to other citizens or their welfare.
Something to the above nature should be made into a Hawaii Constitutional ammendment so such rights can't be undermined again.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ
False security. Lava zone one? Do you want to permit a titanium house with the same tile they build the shuttle out of? Don't think that's extreme. I engineer a lot of crazy crap, it's wholly doable to design a house that will withstand a lava flow. It will cost, well, 200 million dollars, off the cuff.
Why not just build high atop concrete columns? When the lava passes under the house it simply raises the lot elevation. One could build it in modules and you can have it removed before the lava strikes and move it to a temporary location until things cool back down.
So... I say buy two lots in differing locations and build modules that are within the limits of a crane. No need to spend 200 million and you never have to be homeless either, nor does the bank have to worry about lava insurance, just get some cheapy emergency house moving insurance, Loyds can make up any policy you desire.
No need to fear Madam Pele... completely respect and understand her ways and she never could or would harm you. She's got a job to do like anyone else, she simply has no concept of our presence here, that's all, it's nothing personal. [  ]
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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There are still lots of people building substandard homes
without permits.
Good luck to them if they ever want to sell. or get an equity loan.
The value determined at appraisal time will be largely based on weather or not the house was permitted and finaled.
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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"Why not just build high atop concrete columns? When the lava passes under the house it simply raises the lot elevation."
Nah, just zone the whole area for moble homes only - grin
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Mobile homes are now legal in the state. They didn't use to be, but they changed the codes awhile back. Still haven't seen any mobile home parks, though.
There is a recurring idea throughout this thread that unpermitted structures don't pay taxes, but the property tax department taxes them even if they don't have a permit. The property tax folks are, as far as I know, entirely separate from the building department. The property tax folks actually go out and inspect each property occasionally. I'm not sure of their inspection schedule, but if you build something they will be taxing you for it pretty quickly.
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
"I like yard sales," he said. "All true survivalists like yard sales."
Kurt Wilson
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"The property tax folks actually go out and inspect each property occasionally"
I am willing to bet they access to some very high resolution areal imagery
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I've seen several older unpermitted homes that reflect nothing but land tax with no imporvements shown or additional tax added. The building department is the vehicle in which the tax department most relies upon for it's updating. Looking at every property in the county would be a daughting task to say the least. Very seldom do they search vaccant lots and those lots with structures deep in the woods are seldom known about. Some lots cannot be entered if locked up. I think the tax accesors office has to gain permission to enter private property. The only folks I know of that don't need permission to enter private property or secure a court warrent is the U.S. Census department.
In addition to this issue, using high resolution satellite images can only alert the tax office to a structures presence, it cannot be used to determine the exact taxable information on the improvement in determining an actual value.
People do not build a non permitted structure to escape taxation not in the case of the small modest house, they do it to escape the high jacking fees they will encounter by being forced to use Architects, plumber and electricians (who by the way can now charge what ever they like because they know you have to use them). In the state of Hawaii with the $100,000 owner occupied home exemption, one would have to be a nut not to take advantage of this exemption as most of these homes have very little value and the exemption can knock out the land value portion tax in many cases too. This would leave them to pay the minimum possible tax, less than a neighbor who only has vacant land in many cases.
So on that note… the tax collection would be a wash at this point as the assessor’s office would really have no motive to find your non permitted house. The county would lose vacant land tax revenues they currently collect if the house were to be noted and the owner occupied exemption put in place. In other words… a large loss in current vacant land taxes would be put in jeopardy if they tried to go after these non permitted homes. So they are not going to run out and try to find them.
Anyhow, my concern has very little to do with the taxation portion; it has everything to do with the safety issues that revolve around possible municipal water contamination and sewage treatment issues.
Let’s say John Doe built a house non-permitted 5 years ago. Let’s assume his house is now worth $50,000 thus creating a $50,000 improvement and let’s assume his land value is worth $50,000. He has a total net property value of $100,000. At this time John pays around 1 percent for vacant land at $50,000 value and his tax is $500 for the year. If they try to include the house he is living in one may initially think he will now pay around $1,000 a year in property tax. Wrong… if he claims the owner occupied exemption $100,000 will be knocked off his taxable base property value and his tax bill will only reflect the minimum default tax payment of what ever that is… I forget the exact numbers but they are well below his old vacant land tax that was collected. So the county will lose revenue if they go after John. What’s the incentive for the county to go after him? No incentive whatsoever.
So now John may send turds down to the ocean reef and backwash his lawn fertilizer into the county water supply that he may have tapped into.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
The only thing the government should concern themselves with regarding a house is the sewage handling and IF tied into the municipal power grid… how it’s wired inside and how it is to be insulated if using heat or AC but only IF tied to the grid. They can also concern themselves with water cisterns with regard to them being sealed from mosquitoes and if a house is to use municipal water how the water supply is handled. The house should also be subject to the zoning regulations as per setbacks and other such applicable issues. Anything beyond those matters are strictly private and of no concern to other citizens or their welfare.
Why include setbacks to be enforced? Under this scenario, where on a property a person builds their home should also be of no concern to the government. Same goes for zoning restrictions that limits what a person builds and how on their land. If I buy land, and what I build and to what standard or safety level is of no concern to government, I should also be allowed to rip the land pin to pin and pave it over if I desire. I should be allowed to put a 100 feet tall chrome and glass home right on the property line. If we are looking to provide sanctuary for the builder on building codes and regulations, the justification for that sanctuary is due to their private ownership of property. Therefore it extends to all phases of the private property as an integrated part of that sanctuary and must also be of no concern to government. So setbacks and zoning codes cannot apply as well.
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As it is, people who can afford to pay for a variance they want do exactly whatever they want anyway. Or just pay the fines. The regulations only impact average people of average means. People at either the low or high end of the impact scale simply blow the whole thing off.
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This tread is kind of all over the place, but here is a possibly doable idea for off grid houses .
In the NYS code there is an exemption that owner occupied single family homes do not need plumbing or electric if they have a approved sanitary outhouse ( it was written in for the Amish ). Maybe something like this could be written in the county code for off grid houses
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