Appeals to the Tax Board of Review

[Rob Tucker]

It is extremely easy to misjudge people intentions, especially on the internet. I try to encourage everyone to assume the best. It just works better all around.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[Obie]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

Obie,
There’s no attitude on my behalf, but if you are agreeing with Scott you are agreeing that we should not complain as he says because his taxes are so low anyhow…

“You really need to stop comparing Hawaii with the mainland. Things are much different here and they move much slower.
I’ll bet you will spend more money between your flight and lodging then you will recoup from the evil tax assessor, surprise, surprise.
Our taxes are so low that I have my wife run down and pay them the same day we get it.
I don’t want them to think they made a mistake and under charged me.”

The last sentence is very clear in its intent, he doesn’t want them thinking they made a mistake because we are disputing the assessed value on our land. So who has the attitude? I’m not telling anyone not to exercise their rights and I’m not telling anyone what to do, I’m not telling people to not compare municipal responsibilities. I asked a question regarding whether or not anyone else had filled with the board and made a comment about how most counties across the country are reducing assessments this year and that Hawaii County is failing to automatically reduce assessments like most the other counties.
Now you’re telling me I have attitude? I think you need to hold up a mirror.

I appologize for the question if that was not your intent, but the seming arogance in the reply from Scott was not "kool".

E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

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I don't think Scott was being arrogant,he was just stating that his taxes were low.

Both of us were trying to tell you that you are not going to get anywhere by going to the county government,kicking down the door and demanding change.

Change here moves at a glacial pace and you better adjust to that fact.

Also,you say you are building in Waa Waa.Be prepared for all kinds of red tape.Most of the ocean side is a conservation area and you also have the SMA to deal with and Native Hawaiian rights.

Good luck but you may just want to stay in Washington and beat your head against a wall there.

[Bob Orts]

You should see the dirty looks I get on the mainland when people ask me about my property tax. I tell them my property tax is $8,000 a year. People flip and have a sh*t fit because they are paying over $20,000 on the same value property. They get mad and are ready to storm down to the Assessor to find out why I pay so little. Of course the bill from the Tax Assessor is $25,000 but only $8,000 is actual property tax. The remainder is assessments and fees the Tax Assessor collects on behalf of other government entities for things like bonds, debt repayment, special assessments for this and that, all approved by voters. So, when talking about mainland property taxes, talk about the property tax, not the total of the bill you received based on some voter approved bond or assessment which you could also could have said NO too. If you agree to pay the extra money, don’t claim its property tax when its not. Your bill is just the way to collect all the extras. I heard in CA the real actual property tax is labeled as property tax levy; everything else is not property tax.

[Wao nahele kane]

Obie,
I erased my former reply because I'm really getting fed up with these snide little wet behind the ears mainland boy crap comments.
I've lived on and off the island since 1978 so you need no longer assume I don't know how things work out there.
Also, I'm very aware of the burrial sites along the coast in Waa Waa and it's potential impact on proposed improvements, etc.
I never mentioned anything about knocking in doors and making demands, so stop with the theatrics there.

E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[Wao nahele kane]

Bob,
The looks you talk about... My former father in-law gets when his neighbors stop by their little 2 and 5 acre vacation homes and visit him on his 60 acre place. Most are not aware of the owner occupied exemptions and storm off to the assessors office comparing his spread to theirs and get nowhere. The tax rates are not far removed from the mainland rates, but the owner occupied exemptions and the relatively lower assessments do make a huge difference when comparing the mainland to Hawaii, agreed.
In general-
The only thing that is ticking me off is when the Hawaii assessor drove all the assessed vacant lot values up to the trumped up predatory lending values of 2007. I’m sure they did this to folks who bought homes during that time also (to whom I feel for deeply what they have to deal with today). They (the assessors) then kicked back and ignored the obvious fall back to normal values and claimed not enough comps by virtue of very few sales in 2008. That's the thing that is torking my butt. Folks like to claim the county moves slow... well the assessor didn't move slow when they astronomically hiked up the vacant land assessments in 2007, they move how and when they want, it's not that they move slow.
So this notion of slow moving Hawaii government with respect to the assessors is bull as its speed is guided more by motive.


E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[alohaglady]

Does anyone know if the 3% cap also applies to vacant property? Property taxes on our lot jumped from $350 to $2200 a few years back, and we hadn't even poured the slab at the time.

[Obie]

The 3 % cap is for owner occupied homes.

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

The only thing that is ticking me off is when the Hawaii assessor drove all the assessed vacant lot values up to the trumped up predatory lending values of 2007. I’m sure they did this to folks who bought homes during that time also (to whom I feel for deeply what they have to deal with today). They (the assessors) then kicked back and ignored the obvious fall back to normal values and claimed not enough comps by virtue of very few sales in 2008. That's the thing that is torking my butt.

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The only fair thing is to establish a valuation based on recent sales (a rolling six month period). If sale prices are high, you pay high taxes, if values drop, taxes drop. But, that also means if people want a 3% cap on tax increases, they equally accept a cap of only 3% on any decrease. This way foreclosures, short sales etc will be counted to reduce taxes as well as investors running up prices will be counted towards increases.

It's funny how many people were complaining when they went to buy and the appraised values came in lower than what they were wanting in a mortgage. So if the appraised value is close to what they paid, why should it be less than what they paid for it?

[David M]

OK, someone explain to me (and convince me) of the logic of setting property taxes based on sales value. I'll save my "rant" for after I read the great words of wisdom that justify this ridiculousness.

David

Ninole Resident

[Bob Orts]

quote:

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Originally posted by David M

OK, someone explain to me (and convince me) of the logic of setting property taxes based on sales value.

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Because, if like Hawaii, the tax is based on "market value", what better way to arrive at "market value" than sales? People pay what the value the market will support. So, all that's needed is to comp a property to property that sold. It’s in line with almost all other percentage tax like sales tax on cost or income tax on income. There for it's an equitable method of determining taxes.

Now, if your ridiculous nature of this is based on what real estate taxes support and determining what a person should pay, well sales price does not equate to equitable from that standpoint. A 20 acre property with a 2 million dollar home occupied by a retired financially well off couple may use less community/government services than a .2 acre fire trap home with 7 school age children, 2 unemployed criminally minded drunk adults, with no health insurance and a leaking septic system.

But Hawaii law requires an equitable method of assessing and collecting taxes based on the market value, nothing else.