Kapoho Beach Road may be public, official says

[missydog1]

I find it very hypocritical if the Beach Lots folks protest that they are keeping the public out because the area already has pollution problems, while when they advertise they admit to no such pollution issues. Rather from the ads I would take this to be the cleanest purest most pristine area of Hawai'i.

[Obie]

Greg and Kathy

If you want to discuss septics and pollution why not start a new subject??

This post started to be about whether the road was private or public and it is about the gate.

The gate wasn't put there to stop pollution or to exclude people from being able to enjoy the ocean.

It was put there to stop crime.There has long been a problem with break ins and thefts in the area.Lower Puna is basically lawless,there is no police presence and if the police are called they take a long time to respond.
I live in Vacationland and we have the same problems.About a year ago we had someone take the glass out of a window in our downstairs Ohana and reach in and unlock the sliding glass door.They then entered the bedroom where our tenant was asleep.Luckily the person ran away when she screamed,but if the person had not left,there was no one to help her.
We have also had items stolen as have most of our neighbors.

Although it is not working,this is the reason for the gate.

Perhaps they need to take down the gate and turn loose large packs of pit bulls at night.Apparently this is acceptable in Puna and gates are not.

[Bullwinkle]

Wouldn't this be a title insurance insurance issue? Seems that title of the road may have been murky and passed to the association anyway.

It would be a stretch, but id start there .... if the transfer wasnt insured then the developer who subdivided would be on the hook. If he cant be found (or statue of limitations in effect) , the association may have do the honorable thing by assuming the liability and building a park

[Wao nahele kane]

Is this the development that has the Mailboxes to the right of a rural type gate just before the Mango Grove forest entrance out there in the lava field?

E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[Bullwinkle]

Anyone in real estate care to comment on the road, title and association issues, should be part of real estate 101 me thinks

[Obie]

The ownership of the land dates back to the Hawaiian Monarchy and it shouldn't be too hard to locate the Lyman's or the Kapoho Land Development Company.

Latest plans are here.

http://www.hcrc.info/community-planning/...g.pdf/view

[PaulW]

"If you want to discuss septics and pollution why not start a new subject??"

The pollution issue is being raised as a reason for the gate.
Other people think crime is the reason.

Any residents here who know more about this?

[Bullwinkle]

While you folks are sorting out septic...

Id still love to hear from a title rep or real estate agent as to the legal ramifications and solutions. Re: A public road included in a private sub development and title(s) issued - that be the topic at hand

come on real estate guys and gals - time to put all those fancy certifications to work and offer some insight here - grin - thanks

[Wao nahele kane]

I'm not in real estate but I am in development and know there are 2 sources with regard to the legal aspects of this subject.
One is the land court records where you can find the legal descriptions on the given plat/plats. The other is the plat maps drawn by the survey department who is responsible for establishing the details of the legal descriptions as well as the parcel maps.
I see no exceptions entered on the plat maps with regard to ownership of the plats. So... unless there is a text based description indicating an exception to ownership or a binding agreement to make the roadways public I see no merit in the findings of a once upon a time record that indicates a road back in the 1880's. There may be no remaining record that describes the road... who it belonged to or what they did with it regarding ownership. The present records indicate no public interest and it would be very unusual for a survey department not to show a public roadway on a parcel map if it existed legally.

As an example... you can apply just the opposite to the Shipmans plat were there are clear and evident records of exception to ownership of their plat regarding the 10' beach road.

If one want's to get technical about this matter... the whole of the Hawaiian islands was owned by the Monarchy at one time... so what? Now it's the state of Hawaii and uses normal State and County departments to record and manage the lands.


E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[Bullwinkle]

Its solutions and liability Im asking about really.

As this 1880 map seems to have thrown a monkey wrench in the clear chain of title indicating a public road to a school site on what is now sold as private property. My thinking is some where on the deeds there should be a reference as to who owns the road... "an undivided interest" is usually the way its written up.

One would think if a public road were to transfered a record would exist, in the absence of that record, and the map being "verified" as authentic.... a mess sure to arise upon next transfer of title if the buyers are on the ball.

If ownership of that road recorded on title, even if "undivided".... the title insurance companies may be liable.

Not really as much as a development as a clear title / title insurance issue in my opinion.....

May have Island wide impact as more maps are "dug up" as there seems to be a history of many pretty shady "land deals" at the turn of the century.