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Well here again, there may have been a school back in 1880 or school field site and there may have been a school in multiple other private developments as well as roads that lead to them. I don't see anyway it could have any merit in the present legal description and use of the land. Obviosly the school no-longer exists nor did it exist in the 1950's when the development was initially recorded. I don't even see the existance of the school from the 1931 map. Like anything else, even today, a school district can sell it's land to private interest. Obviosly the school land was vacated long ago and the land interest sold to KD by whom ever held the deed/deeds at that time.
In all reality it would be the land court records department and the survey departments responsibility. If those records indicate no such public interest, then there is no such public interest.
I don't see how a school from 1880 would effect this... the whole school system was very different back then... it could have been loaned land for use by a school. We've really no knowledge of how it was deeded, there only exists a map from 1880. So unless some-one can come up with something beyond a map with no other supporting records showing it was never released with regard to its interest, I see no liability or legal matter involved.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Ill keep waiting for professional input from a title company,
In the meantime I think Id avoid that area at the current price levels as the titles are now under a cloud. Title insurance guarantees clean title in my opinion. Yesterday in the paper fact supported questions were raised as to that cleanliness. It is situations like this why we buy insurance
Aloha
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quote:
Originally posted by Bullwinkle
Id still love to hear from a title rep or real estate agent as to the legal ramifications and solutions. Re: A public road included in a private sub development and title(s) issued - that be the topic at hand...
It's not uncommon to have a county road within a subdivision even when the other roads are private within the same subdivision. For example, Leilani Avenue is a county road in Leilani Estates and Ainaloa Blvd is a county road in Ainaloa. I'm not familiar with the road issue in question, but when the county issued the subdivision permit to the developer of Kapoho Beach Lots the permit indicated "private roads" so even if the road was public at some time the county transferred it to the developer. All property owners have a percentage ownership of the roads there and it's in their deed. If the county wants to take the road back they will have to use eminent domain.
Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,PB,ABR,CRB,CM,FHS
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
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Thanks for the input John.... like I said, me thinks this is a good example to keep an eye on to see how it plays out.... Sure happy it isn't my problem - yet - have been eyeing the area for a while. ' Be calling you when ready to make an offer.
"Wouldn't this be a title insurance insurance issue? Seems that title of the road may have been murky and passed to the association anyway."
being my initial question before we started wandering a bit
meanwhile back to the ranch and rock wall work - grin
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From the legal aspect we've to consider the following.
Hawaii was not a state until August 21'st 1959.
Prior to this, Hawaii was the Kingdom of Hawaii from 1810 to 1893 and it was an independent republic from 1894 until 1898, when it was annexed by the United States as a territory, until becoming a state in 1959.
So... we've a map from 1880 when Hawaii was a Kingdom showing a school... we have the Kapoho Development that existed prior to Hawaii statehood.
So we've really no period in which Hawaii was a territory and was shown to have a school in the Kapoho subdivision but we do have the present map from 1931 that shows no school when Hawaii was a territory.
So... it would appear that this school and its road never existed when Hawaii was a U.S. territory. So what other legal matters could there be? The Kapoho development was never Territory, State or County owned land as far as I can see.
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
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Here's something else to consider: page 3 of the 1906 surveyors report says the school site sank into the sea in the 1868 earthquake.
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Gates do not stop crime. Secondly while the gate may decrease the amount of incidents, the $$$'s per incident went up.
Have the gate, dont have the gate. This is for the homeowners and the county to decide but the reasoning that it lowers crime doesn't fly.
There is a study done (that I am trying to find the link to) that found that some communities in So cal communities that became gated did not lower the $/per crime rate. In fact, because the criminals became smarter and got in with trucks & vans etc that said "so and So's repair service", They actually now had a van or truck to load more than just jewelry and cameras into.
The gate appeared to lower the awareness of "outsiders" in the community and allowed those outsiders that did get in more free rein because neighbors thought "they were supposed to be there" because they got through the gate.
That said, one of these communities were on a natural resource (the Pacific Ocean), same as Beach lots.
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It all sounds to me like there's a person grasping at straws in the matter. There's no way public access will work down there, regardless of whether or not the road can be proven to be public domain or not.
I'm sort of fed up with this public access to beaches bull. The county should start making some public beaches. We own the equipment and land already, just hire a few folks to break up the lava and push it out to sea, toss in a parking lot boat ramp and wham a beach with break water is born. I mean really... think about it, making beaches is cheaper and eisier than making roads. As per the sea life... it won't harm a thing that cannot spring right back by many fold in the calmer waters, aside from that Madam Pele burns those creatures out of house and home all the time. She doesn't discriminate, why should we?
In addition to the above, how many people sitting in prison can operate heavy equipment? Why not pull them out of the cage and put them to work making beaches all over Hawaii? Prisoners gain valuable work experience and earn a sense of accomplishment all while giving back to the community. The community will prosper through tourism by all the great beaches that will spring up etc.
We've got to face the facts... all the good beaches are either surrounded by homes/development, not accessable or crammed with people. Now ask yourself why tourism is in the toilet? I never thought of Hawaii as having great beaches but I've always thought we had very few beaches and they are crowded at that. It's time to get innovative and make our coastlines work for us instead of laying about and crying about tourism being down and not having access to beaches. It makes no sense when every ounce of raw material and manpower are free and at our immediate call.
;p
E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.
Wao, what you propose would kill any coral, and coral takes decades to recover, not a year or so. I'm glad you aren't in charge of the coastline!
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What Wao proposes has merit if done in the right location. The lava plain at the former Kaimu beach would be a good spot to make a keiki/family lagoon, and create a surf point with the material excavated.
The positives are that the Kalapana lava flow already destroyed and covered any nearshore ecosystem, so it's basically a barren seafloor.
It would create a new recreational area for locals and visitors alike.(and) The residents of Kalapana have too much aloha to erect any gates or barriers keeping people out.
The negatives are that some Hawaiians feel altering the lava would be a desecration.
Worth a study?
punatoons
