sugar cane exits - dow agrow enters

[centipede]

Wouldn't it be nice if the people who squawk about the frightening dangers of surviving in an altered global environment got together and bought a tract of Big Island land that's up for sale, and use it to grow fruit, vegetables, and grain from heirloom seeds that have survived adverse conditions, and do the best they can to turn a profit on a large scale. If they can find seeds that haven't been around for decaces or longer, they too should be given a chance to live in a new, possibly changing environment without any need of petroleum-based fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, or any other cide I may have missed. Ooh, the money! Can we turn a profit? That seems to be the bottom line in today's greedy, corrupt world in which perhaps many of those in control may not think or care about the future. So, what would it cost to set up a thousand acre layout, or maybe even ten thousand acres, and equip it with state of the art solar power? How Much? Fifty million? A hundred million? There was a time when such numbers meant something, but those are days gone by because we now toss around numbers called trillions as if they were cards in a game of poker. To help you put these numbers into their proper perspective, that lousy hundred million bucks is ten million times smaller than a single trillion, and how many trillions are we choking on now? That lousy hundred million bucks works out to one tenth of one percent of a single trillion, and to put it into numerical terms, that's 00.001%. Our island is starving for jobs, and it's starving for a way to create them. Yes, new housing creates jobs too but for the most part, they're non-renewable and like insects, they have to migrate where there is more raw land to "develop". I've said enough. You get the picture.

[HiloHaole]

Centipede, the labor union would come in a destroy the company, forcing it to go out of business. The unions are the biggest culprits, not the companies when discussing the demise of agriculture in Hawaii. H*##, is the pool still closed to the Hilo swimming team requiring them to travel to Kona to practice because the union will not let the county hire part-time lifeguards, even though full-time lifeguards were not available?

[centipede]

HiloHaole, are you actually suggesting that labor unions are self-serving and as corrupt as politicians? Tsk tsk.

I don't use big numbers every day, and because I do math longhand without a calculator I think I screwed up the above numbers a bit. I think $100,000,000 is only 10,000X smaller than $1,000,000,000,000 but then again, that's more like one-one hundreth of one percent, or 00.0001%, which works out to a dollar for every ten thousand. A pittance, as they say, and it would be for something with a more healthy future rather than a poison present that may not have a future. A real bang for a buck, and a possible safeguard for humanity that's beyond calculation.

[JWFITZ]

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/BiotechCrops/

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[PaulW]

"wheat, corn, rice, and soybeans [...] In each type of crop, a handful of GMO strains dominate all production"

Your link shows data on corn and soybeans, how about the other two?

[Bullwinkle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food

second page down has a great able, above my skill level to reproduce here.


note that 50% of papaya here in hawaii is gmo if I read the tables right

[Bullwinkle]

Sweet corn /Produces its own bioinsecticide (Bt toxin)/ Gene from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis added to the plant - from the table


May be the missing part of that african chicken post ... I do not think Id eat corn that produces its own biocide

clever though.

[JWFITZ]

Speaking of evidence.

I'd personally like to see some evidence that some people are even capable of changing their mind when presented with the data they requested.

As an interesting thought experiment, along these lines, perhaps some one could search all of Punaweb and find someone, whom, on presentation of evidence, changed their mind. Ironically, it was on this very topic. I know of one example. Perhaps there are others.

And even if they did, then what? Do they hold themselves to the same standard of credibility they hold others?

In wheat, the issue is different, as I believe TAM 111 is the predominate GMO strain. The producer, whom I don't remember, got it declared non-GMO even though it was. The current key, and wheat is the new-comer to GMO they(the ag/biz guys) try to legislate the definition of GMO to be not GMO in the same manner that a 3 month old frozen chicken from Tyson is "fresh" when thawed.

Rice I have no personal experience with. Nor do I speak Chinese or other assorted dialects and I'm not privy to the primary producers "bona fide" information. I don't feel the need to spoon feed people. I'm sure anyone truly interested in the details could sort them out, but I've seen the writing on the wall, at least to my satisfaction. We've accounted for the vast majority of tonnage of food production and just try to live one day without consuming corn syrup from GMO corn and see how that works out. For myself, personally, as I"m a reasonable guy, I believe the evidence that suggests that GMO products are unhealthy is weak. On the other hand, the evidence that they lead to bad ag practice and soil destruction and all the rest is simply not even subject to discussion. We haven't even brought up GMO cotton, which we don't eat, but is probably the biggest soil killer in the world. There's a reason it's banned, and it's not hysteria.

Perhaps we should discuss corn as a model crop. Here the GMO issue is clear. Then we may hypothesize and interpolate the impact that GMO crops may have on and industry. That would be fair, and reasonable. If anyone is interested in that, I'm willing. If we had any sensitivity to the local economy, we could discuss the impact of GMO papayas. We could also discuss the viability of GMO tomatoes. That's an interesting study as well, and a more hopeful one.

We can fix this whole issue in one fell swoop. Require labeling of GMO products and let the consumer decide. If you don't want to eat it, don't. You have a right to know, and make a decision, on whatever evidence you choose to find most compelling. Who would disagree?

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[PaulW]

Capable of changing their mind? I'd be satisfied with someone admitting
they're wrong when faced with the facts.

The fact is that there is NO commercial GMO wheat, none, so I wonder why people
say that "a handful of GMO strains dominate all production".

It's a pattern seen again and again, like the chicken story, people just make
stuff up to fit with their views.

[JWFITZ]

Ok, fine, you win. I was wrong all through and don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

Now I'll go back to constructive activities.


http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/