hawaii gun control laws

[Bob Orts]

Some other reasons the analogy is flawed.

Alaska has what is considered the most liberal state for gun ownership. By your rationale it should have a low weighted average for firearm deaths. So why is it Number 2?

In DC the majority of gun deaths are criminal on criminal (almost 74%) so only 26% of incidents involve "law abiding" citizens. In Washington State, only 40% are criminal on criminal, which means 60%, involve law abiding citizens. By those numbers the chances of an innocent individual law abiding person being the victim of crime with a firearm is more than double in Washington State.

In Texas, almost half the people who used a gun in a crime obtained the gun illegally and half legally. In DC almost 95% of people who used guns in crimes obtained them illegally. You are more likely in Texas to be a victim of a gun crime by another law abiding citizen toting a gun than in DC.

In states with liberal gun ownership laws, the rate of firearms used by the aggressor in domestic violence deaths are high compared to states with restrictive gun ownership laws.

Hawaii cannot be compared to the mainland because there is no free flowing unrestricted transportation network. The majority of illegal firearms in NYC are legally purchased in states with liberal gun laws and illegally transported to NYC. If NYC was located 2,000 miles out in the Atlantic with everything being flown or shipped in, bet they wouldn't have a big gun problem.

My question is: Are crimes with firearms in Hawaii really influenced by gun control laws or is it really influenced by the availability of guns?

[Kelena]

Mainland America is a murderous place with an extremely high rate of violent crime, especially in urban centers. Violence, someone said, is as American as apple pie. Are you sure you want to export that to Hawaii which, as far as violence goes, is a completely different country?

Guns don't kill people, violent cultures kill people. America is a very violent, almost anarchic culture, by and large, with pockets of peacefulness. But there is something in the American character now that is a little off kilter....and very, very violent. It is just slightly beneath the surface. As Joni Mitchell said, you can feel it in the air....everyone hates everyone....and the gas leaks....and the oils spills....and sex sells everything and....sex kills.

[oink]

This link may be of interest: http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/in...om_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=47. It gives a synopsis of Hawaii gun laws. If the link is too long you may have to copy and paste it.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[dirk1609]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Glen

Mainland America is a murderous place with an extremely high rate of violent crime, especially in urban centers. Violence, someone said, is as American as apple pie. Are you sure you want to export that to Hawaii which, as far as violence goes, is a completely different country?

Guns don't kill people, violent cultures kill people. America is a very violent, almost anarchic culture, by and large, with pockets of peacefulness. But there is something in the American character now that is a little off kilter....and very, very violent. It is just slightly beneath the surface. As Joni Mitchell said, you can feel it in the air....everyone hates everyone....and the gas leaks....and the oils spills....and sex sells everything and....sex kills.

---

I can't disagree with anything you said there. I certainly don't want to bring violence anywhere. All I want is the right to defend myself when necessary without worrying about going to jail for it.

[Greg]

I don't see what the problem is. As is my right; I defend my family, my property and myself without the fear of going to jail.



punatoons

[Kelena]

Well, it's a conundrum. Here's how it goes: The more guns there are in Hawaii, the more likely it is you will need to defend yourself. The guns are, so to speak, the spark that ignites the latent violent tendencies in American culture. If hand out a hundred million guns on the street in Canada or the Netherlands, the murder rate will go up zero percent. If you hand out a hundred million guns on the street in America, I recommend that you flee immediately to Canada...or to Hawaii (nominally part of America). Culturally, Americanism has not completely taken root in Hawaii. It is an invasive species. Island culture has it's own unpleasant aspects but they are, generally, non-violent. And so my recommendation is that we not mix guns with American culture. When you do, you have guys with loaded guns standing outside the hall where the President is speaking despite the following: Assassination of JFK, Assassinatin of MLK, Assassination of RFK, attempts on life of Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan.

In this culture, the more we love guns, the more we have to fear and the more likely we may actually need one for self defense. That's because we live in a society where we love a brand of "freedom" that borders on anarchy. The freedom to live in a gated community, as many do in the Phillipines for example, is not much freedom at all.

And so the ironic fact is that if you want to be protected from gun violence, you must stop wanting a gun. It's a subtle, zen concept. Hard to grasp. I almost don't believe it myself. But we must want to live in a culture where there are no guns while we still have the right to have a gun. If we don't have the right to have a gun, then we are deprived of the important decision not to have one. Only when we make that decision on a personal level and only when millions of Americans make that decision will the levels of gun violence go down. We go insane about the right to have a gun, but no one ever mentions the right NOT to bear arms. That is also protected by the constitution. No one is obliged to have a gun. The opposite is true in Switzerland for example. Everyone MUST have a gun, in order to constitute a well-ordered militia.

In the meantime, while we ponder the koan of the freedom to not have what we you are entitled to have, here is a a partial list of the fearful things that having a gun won't defend you against:

• Burglary when you are not home
• Burglaries when you are home asleep
• Guys who pull out in front of you on the Highway
• Guys with guns who are quicker than you
• Lawyers in love
• Tsunamis
• Three mokes with O'o sticks who catch you half naked in an isolated area coming out of the ocean
• Poorly washed lettuce
• Tom Delay shaking his okole on Dancing with the Stars
• The sun going down on a beautiful day
• The last glass of wine of a doomed romance
• Sea urchins
• Untreated plumes of pee

You may have your own ideas to add to this list.

[Bullwinkle]

Its all a conspiracy to protect the helicopters I tell ya

They'd be flying a little higher if this were a gun state - grin

seriously though, reading the laws it seems about the only thing one can do with a gun in Hawaii is get in trouble.

I have long been a believer in keeping a baseball bat on a string tucked in behind the front door though.....

[oink]

I don't believe it is currently correct that you have to rretreat from your home, as was previously stated.

From HRS 702-306 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent...3-0306.htm):

quote:

---

Deadly force is ordinarily not permitted. It may be used if the assailant is attempting to dispossess the actor of the actor's dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right. This recognizes an important tradition in the common law which places a high value on the sanctity of the home and recognizes that a person will take extraordinary means to preserve it. Deadly force may also be used to prevent felonious property damage, burglary, robbery, or felonious theft, if: (1) the person against whom the force is used has employed or threatened deadly force against or in the presence of the actor, or (2) use of force short of deadly force would expose the actor or another person in the actor's presence to the danger of serious bodily injury. Both of these cases are covered, in any event, by the self-defense provisions of §§703-304, 305, but it seems wise to spell them out here in light of the general prohibition on use of deadly force.

---

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[808blogger]

one reason for guns is self defense. However that is not the reason for the creation of the 2nd amendment

In all seriousness on the subject. We have a right to bear arms for one main purpose. The protection of the people from tyranny.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

@Glen this is George Washington speaking AGAINST your logic:
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
-- George Washington

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.
-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.

"Taking my gun away because I might shoot someone is like cutting my tongue out because I might yell `Fire!' in a crowded theater."
-- Peter Venetoklis

Law on retreat:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent...3-0304.HTM

I suggest reading the case notes at the end. because the court "interpretation" of some of the law might surprise you
i.e.
Evidence indicated defendant could have retreated safely; attack with baseball bat using sufficient force to break complainant's arm constituted deadly force. 2 H. App. 369, 633 P.2d 547.

[Bullwinkle]

I had to get a buddy out of mexican jail once... They almost had him for a long time. He was famous for well reasoned constitutional foundations for having fire arms along wherever he traveled.

The Mexican authorities had other ideas, Its good to know the local rules