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Dirk,
The problem isn't the brain dead idiot who fires the thing. The problem is the dead body on the floor.
I was reckless with a pair of scissors once and cut off the tip of a finger. Sure glad a Glock isn't a standard kitchen utensil.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Firearm death rate per 100,000:
Oregon: 10.5
California: 9.8
Hawaii: 2.8
Gun ownership percentage:
Orgeon: 39.8
California: 21.3
Hawaii: 8.7
See a pattern? I'm not just talking about murders, that is just a part of the number of deaths by firearm in the USA.
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OK, bottom line here is the same as we always get to in this discussion. There are people who don't like guns and as has become common in this country they think if they don't like it, there should be a law against it. Fortunately our founding fathers anticipated such a situation and insured the Right of The People to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed. Notice the word Right, not privilege or permitted action. The Supreme Court has settled the Individual Right question. Those of us who view firearms as valuable tool for multiple purposes are Not going to Give up that Right just because someone quotes figures at us, as has been said before, if you don't like guns, don't buy one. But leave those of us who are exercising our Rights the hell alone. It is now up to the Supreme Court to decide what constitutes reasonable regulations regarding the exercise of this Right.
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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We Have a Winner!
Thanks Dick!!
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Dick, Hawaii's laws are well within the US Supreme Courts opinion in Heller. Hawaii does not deny a person the right to own and posses a gun in their home. Hawaii does have regulations, but those regulations conform to the three issues: licensing, training, and registration. All three are allowed so long as they are not designed to outright deny a person who otherwise is qualified from owning a gun. Let’s look at the three issues.
Licensing. Hawaii’s licensing is designed to prevent a person who under the Courts opinion is prohibited from owning a gun. Hawaii looks for disqualifying criminal and mental history. If none of those are present, a license is issued. Hawaii approves 98.9% of all gun ownership applications. How does that show any denial of gun ownership?
Training. The Court ruled it’s reasonable to require a person to be properly trained. Hawaii’s training requirements are very limited and they accept training from any recognized program. This training does not even have to be conducted in Hawaii. The training requirement conforms to the Courts opinion.
Registration. Again the Courts do not bar registration of firearms. Hawaii's registration process is akin to transferring an automobile from one owner to another and it is not used to bar ownership, just ensure the prior owner's name is removed and the new owner is assigned. It does not impact the question of ownership.
Since nothing in Hawaii's laws are designed to prohibit gun ownership consistent with the US Supreme Courts 2nd Amendment ruling in Heller, there is no basis to say Hawaii is doing anything wrong or unconstitutional. And, even less to say they deny gun ownership. I know there are many that don't like the Supreme Courts ruling and wanted it to be something else, but that’s what the law is and Hawaii is well within the Courts decision.
Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't understand why the argument persist that there is something wrong with Hawaii’s gun laws when it is well within the US Supreme Courts ruling. The ruling is the ruling and I'm not sure what is being argued over rights when the Hawaii’s laws are constitutional and the people have the right in Hawaii to own guns.
If the real issue is carrying a gun in public, that needs to be made clear in the discussion. It needs to be argued on that issue, not some general Hawaii is anti-gun argument. But restrictions on carrying a weapon in public is constitutional according to the US Supreme Court.
As an FYI, The latest Supreme Court case is not a 2nd Amendment issue; it's a 10th Amendment issue. That’s what the Court will decide.
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It seems to me as well there's a a fuzzy reading of 2cd Amendment rights to both "keep" and "bear". No sense in keeping if bearing is prohibited. I think this is where the Hawaii laws would come into question, but am unaware of any rulings that deal with that side of the issue. Obviously, it's easy to regulate allowing ownership but practically in all manner prohibiting usage, which is close to what we have here. I expect if challenged at a federal level the court would be obligated to see the manner in a similar light.
Any thoughts on that?
http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/
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"Those of us who view firearms as valuable tool for multiple purposes are Not going to Give up that Right just because someone quotes figures at us"
Guns and violence. Doesn't really fit with the mind set hawaii does it? ('cept for pig huntin' grin) , not for me anyway. ...
Remember the owner is 4.6 times more likely to be killed by a gun. If trying to use one for "protection". In that sense the issue self limiting.
Run into some of my PTSD buddies and ones chances being much lower, you will never see the gun that will take your life... that is the way we were taught to play.
If you do decide to keep and own firearm, Remember what your drill instructor taught you. John Wayne killing more American troops than any enemy... Please get some good training. Playing gun is not like on tv.
Each his own, its all good, just be careful and be ready for the consequences. When we pull one out, there is no backing up.
Aloha
edit = a little clean up ....
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Bob, the current court session will be deciding if states can have laws more restrictive than the us government and whose laws have priority. Which also begs the Bear arms point.
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
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One of the things I like about living in Hawaii is the sense of security I have without having a gun around. I certainly wouldn't support any movement to proliferate firearms here.
Besides the "right to bear arms"; the constitution also defends the right of Americans to be stupid idiots (although I can't site the exact paragraph in the constitution, I have seen first hand knowledge of this).
Now if I ask a hundred or so gun enthusiests if they are a stupid idiot, I'm sure I'd get a hundred negative responses, and I probably wouldn't argue the point too much....
I'm pretty sure though, that more than a few of these dudes and dudettes would qualify as being a couple of rounds short of a full magazine, and that's not even taking into consideration the undiagnosed paranoids out there.
So forget the criminals here, I take prudent, effective and non lethal security measures; It's the legitimate, yet deficient gun owning nutjobs like Randy Randrupp that scare me the most.
punatoons
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Pesky figures!
Some people want Hawaii to relax its gun laws. It seems almost certain that if that were to happen, more people will die of firearm-related injuries. You can't have one without the other. Hands up: who wants more firearm deaths?
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