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hawaii gun control laws
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10-10-2009, 04:54 AM
If you say so Dirk. I think that your relying on overly simplistic statements misses the facts and makes no real agrument.
Perhaps you missed the outrage over the proposed plea deal regarding the father who shot and killed his son?
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
10-10-2009, 06:08 AM
I have seen many posts on puna web were the poster was the victim, and somehow the bulk of the puna web folks spin the issue towards the victim. For example if you get robbed, raped or beaten you need to take some life classes.
10-10-2009, 06:15 AM
"Pretty difficult for the scum of the world to carry off a 2000lb safe that is bolted to the floor."
That's if they are bolted to the floor: http://www.hppwatch.ucoz.com/index/0-2 shows that last month in HPP, on 18th St, thieves got "2 Safes, 2 Shotguns". There was also a shotgun stolen in July. More guns = more guns for bad guys too.
10-10-2009, 06:51 AM
I'm not a gun owner (although I am looking at picking up an xdm 9mm in the future) but I don't see too much wrong with hawaiis gun laws. Sure, I think the "assault pistol" laws are a little silly, but nothing I can't live with.
My real quarrel with hawaiis laws in general seems to be the inability to defend yourself with whatever weapon. Sorry, but if someone breaks into my house when I'm home, I shouldn't be on the hotplate for defending my home and person. Thats just crazy. Also from what I'm hearing, stun guns and pepper spray (most of the time) is illegal as well. I'm not big on concealed carry, but thats way over the line. It blows my mind that some state legislators were sitting around and decided that is justice.
10-10-2009, 07:57 AM
Aloha Dirk,
I too believe I have the right to defend my home and family and I will do so as and when needed. I don't think anyone will argue with that. There are a variety of opinions though regarding the use of lethal force as a cure all for all situations. You may of course maintain a position that having a gun as a first option provides you the security you feel you need and are entitled to. Far as I know the State of Hawaii allows gun ownership. I believe you are entitled to defend against lethal force with lethal force. It is determining just when that moment occurs that is difficult. There are obvious perils in applying lethal force. It is a judgment call that Police officers undergo thorough training to address. We depend on our Police Department to make that judgment in the sober exercise of their duty. Even then they are subject to scrutiny. It is serious business. Personally I prefer an environment where gun possession is a controlled issue. I would like to see much heavier penalties for criminals in the possession and use of guns. A two year sentence for murder is intolerable. I also agree that pepper sprays should be a practical defensive option for everyone. On that I agree. In Hawaii you have access to firearms. No one says you do not. There are limits and we can all be grateful that our criminal class, so far, does not include those terribly violent gangs prevalent on the mainland. I read that in Chicago there are 100,000 armed gang members. What a horror. As for Force's comment that "I shouldn't be on the hotplate for defending my home and person" - well you will be subject to the same scrutiny that our Police Officers are if lethal force is your choice. I mentioned earlier that I have experienced three home invasion robberies (not in Hawaii). One involved a thief with a .38 (Virginia). I was not armed and gave up my wallet. One involved three individuals with knives (Connecticut). I ended up disarming them using a 2' steel level. The third instance involved a gang of five masked intruders armed with shotguns (Virginia again). I had a .45 auto (they didn't know). I thought that discretion was the better part of valor and suffered the robbery without personal injury. Being a liberal (which I consider myself to be) does not make me a marshmallow or soft on crime. I kind of consider my point of view to be Pro-Life. I am content to let a jury decide a thief's fate. Many circumstances and many reactions and decisions to make. Blissfully I have never had any such experience here and appreciate the comparatively low number of armed robberies hereabout. I try not to let my mainland experiences influence my thinking here. Hawaii is a different environment. A safer one for the most part. A thief is not to be assumed to be an assassin in my book. But that's my look at the issue. You are all entitled to your own.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
10-10-2009, 10:16 AM
dirk,
My previous comment about the benefit of "life skills" involved avoiding dangerous situations; I have every sympathy towards the victims of violent crime. The two victims I know however, were killed by legally obtained weapons. I gotta tell you though; I don't give a lot of credibility to someone who repeatedly finds themself in confrontational situations (as you have posted about earlier), has brought "over ten military style rifles and several handguns here", and still complains about Hawaii's restrictive gun laws. Like most men and women who have recieved a high degree of training and have actually experienced combat and its aftermath; I have the confidence and skills to protect me and mine without an arsenal. Thankfully most citizens, whether well trained or not, have the common sense to avoid dangerous situations. Sure, bad things happen; but they are a lot less frequent here than in other places. I credit the "restrictive" state policies that allow you over a dozen weapons; yet prevent you from setting out claymore mines. Life skills dude. I'm very sorry you aren't enjoying your time in this paradise. Come out from your bunker and enjoy the sunshine. punatoons
10-10-2009, 10:57 AM
quote: If you don't mind my unsolicited advice, if it's to be your first handgun I strongly recommend a revolver. Simple to learn and operate and easier to fully determine if it's loaded, plus can be easily secured with a common padlock. Pua`a S. FL Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL Big Islander to be.
10-10-2009, 11:06 AM
If a person really, really wants a defensive weapon then my recommendation is a pump action shotgun with a load of rock salt in the first position.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a 12 gauge chambering and no one knows the first load is rock salt except you. If you need the second round, then so be it.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
10-10-2009, 01:55 PM
Hard to beat a good short barreled pump. I bought a used police issue for my wife for under the bed. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately in my case) I think she lost the key to the gun lock. I prefer dove and quail for house use. Doesn't penetrate walls much or carry far but effective up close. I really can't imagine anybody hanging around after they hear the slide rack on a punp. If they do, then salt is inappropriate. But, for a first handgun, if you are determined to get a handgun, go for a quality revolver. I do strongly advise some training if you don't have prior experience. Gone are the days when most all young men learned gun handling from their fathers. Safety does require knowledge and some practice. I think a short practical gun safety course should be a school requirement because it just isn't taught at home much anymore. But then I don't think many schools even have drivers ed anymore. When I was 13 or 14 I had a 16g pump, a .22 bolt and even a .25 Saturday night special which I kept in my own room. I never even considered doing anything stupid with any of the guns. My brother or friends and I hunted a few rabbits with the .22 and a few ducks with the 16g. I hardly even shot the .25 as it wasn't much fun for targets or plinking. I was taught safety and respect for guns by my father and it stuck. Lack of instruction in the home and schools is a big part of todays gun problems. The other part is the unincarcerated criminal element, especially gangs. Often the gang bangers that live by the gun die by the gun (kinda skews the stats too). But thats a crime control issue not a gun control issue imho. You anti gunners don't have to worry about me too much. I will give most of my guns to my kids before I move over. Yes, I did train my kids strictly in gun handling and safety.
Pua`a S. FL Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL Big Islander to be.
10-10-2009, 01:57 PM
Ya, you're right Bullwinkle, There is a lot of anger there. If you are burglarizing someone, you are scum. pure and simple. Does that mean I can arbitrarily shoot you, not by a long shot. But does that mean I can do all in my power to see that you serve a long time in prison you're damn straight it does, and I will. Do I take great delight in seeing some piece of trash burglar go to jail and hopefully stay their you bet.
And I'm willing to bet those safes stolen were the light weight crap sold by home depot or the like. When I say gun safe, I mean the real deal, not cheap, but sturdy and extremely difficult to move even if not bolted down, and requiring considerable technical skill to breach. And yes not everyone will purchase the top of the line model, but even the less expensive ones are better than nothing and can be bolted down. If you fail to do that, well nuff said. dick wilson "Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"
dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!" |
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