Teachers still needed?

[csgray]

Bob,
The topic of furloughs was not the issue, it is the act of just cutting and pasting a press release with no additional commentary on the topic. If you had posted a link and offered your insight on the furloughs and how you think it relates to the Hawaii job market for teachers I wouldn't have said a thing.

Just cutting and pasting entire articles or press releases is a lazy way to participate in a forum discussion, it isn't using your own words or ideas, but instead turns the forum into a wire service and degrades the quality of the discussion. It is also a technique frequently used by mean spirited trolls to start up the sort of vitriolic discussions that either require moderators to step in or destroy the community feel of many forums. So when a new member of Puna web starts off by cutting and pasting instead of offering their own words and thoughts it is a huge red flag for me.

I disagree with much that is in your new post, but they are your words and opinions and you have every right to express them here.

Carol

Edited to add: Judging from his posts on the building thread the original poster is not a teacher but a building contractor.

[oink]

I actually found the posted article (double posting aside) interesting and learned stuff I didn't previously know.

Welcome to punaweb BobH!

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[BobH]

Hi Carol,
What do you disagree with me about? I understand you are a teacher so your input will be of interest to me.

Is posting links out to other sites forbidden by the Forum?

Here is where I disagree with you: Links out to other sites should be welcome when the links lead to info related to our thread. Why would you want to limit what people can learn? The subject we are dealing with needs to be heard and some people interested in this thread may not have the time I do or you do to look for all related articles on the Internet.

And why come at me with an attitude? I'm just trying to be an active member here with related input and information. If what I write here upsets you then tell me about and why. If you don't like what I write or post you can also choose to ignore it.

Thanks for your time and Aloha.

BobH

P.S. For the people reading this thread who do not know who I am; I am the husband of a highly qualified teacher who has been seeking a position on the BI for 2 years. My wife has 2 bachelor degrees, a master’s in education, almost every endorsement important to her profession, 20 years of experience including national and International, has Praxis 1 and Praxis 2 , is the after school program coordinator & tutor and comes highly qualified by numerous educators worldwide. She wants to teach Hawaii; it’s that simple. Your kids will benefit from having her as their teacher.

All I want is what she wants. And I have an opinion about education in Hawaii. I know that not all people can agree but I also know that it is ok to disagree especially when it doesn’t come to a personal level.


Best!
BobH

[csgray]

Bob,
If you read my posts carefully you will see I recommended posting a link and any comments or insights you had to add instead of just cutting and pasting a whole article with no comments. In my experience on this forum it doesn't matter if people post a link or copy the article, if they do so without explanation or comment they are usually just trolling or attempting to drive traffic to specific website for reasons of their own. If that wasn't what you were doing, my apologies.

My issue wasn't with the content of what you posted, but with you cutting and pasting a long article with no comments. I wasn't suggesting you should pull the whole posting, just asking for an explanation of why you thought it was important enough to post. You jumped to the conclusion that the article had "upset" me, it wasn't the article it was the cutting and pasting without any addition of your own.

To recap: IMHO links and comments are good ways to communicate on a forum, links or cutting and pasting without comments aren't.

Carol

[Carey]

Bob - The DOE can really drop the ball, as far as hiring (even to the point of telling student teachers that there may be no jobs for them - what a gift of discouragement!) Hopefully your wife has also checked with the other school options, including each of the charter schools she is interested in...

Just my personal opinion, and worth only the bytes on screen, - I do believe that there will be a teacher turnover here soon,

1. because some of the schools are nearing the end of their restructuring. The requirement on the schools that do not meet their goals include staff changes. When this happened in Ill. there was a need for qualified & highly qualified teachers.... the DOE really does not have a choice in that.

2. teachers that are eligible for retirement may take it now, rather than the potential of lower base salary that may come up.

3. teachers that may have been thinking of 'moving on' may have further incentives with the lower salary here.

ETA: Plus the fact that TFA & others are actively recruiting for teaching positions in HI. granted there is fed money there, but that is one way to go....

[BobH]

OK Carol,

Understood, from here on out I will not "cut & paste" any articles "no more" without at least throwing in my two cents along with it.

My bottom line to the person that made the original thread here that started all this stuff is this:

A.)Teachers are in less demand than in past years and may be even in less demand this coming year for many reason.

1.) If you are a special Ed teacher you may have more of a chance.
2.) If you intend to try to find a position and have not yet applied to the DOE for approval...you should get at it, it takes some time.
3.) You need to get your Hawaii teacher License now and it is a separate agency from the DOE.
4.) there seems to be a surplus of teachers state wide who have already been in the the system and will have a head start on you.

May I suggest that if we want to talk about the reasons for all the trouble in Hawaii Education that we start another thread?



Best!
BobH

[csgray]

Carey makes some good points, but the fact that virtually no school district in the country is escaping the effects of the economic downturn may slow the exodus of teachers from Hawaii, a job in Hawaii at 15-20 % less than you signed on for is still a job. I think the more expensive islands will see teachers leave first, if they can't pay their student loans and meet living expenses on the reduced salary. If Hawaii's economic recovery lags behind the mainland as has happened in past downturns, then I think we will first see younger teachers without deep roots here leave, followed by those whose spouses can't find work here, if there is work available on the mainland.

I also think that the whole furlough/pay cut thing will make it much harder for Hawaii to recruit qualified teachers in the future. It takes a lot of sacrifice to move here; you are far from friends and family, the cost of living is high, and it is expensive to bring much "stuff" with you, and expensive to replace it here if you leave it behind. If a potential teacher can't be sure what their income will be once they are here, then luring them to Hawaii to teach will be a tough sell.

I think the fact that Bob's wife has been unsuccessfully trying to get a teaching job on the Big Island for 2 years, in spite of having all the right credentials, is particularly instructive as to what can happen to even the best qualified of educators here.

Carol

[BobH]

Hi Carey,
You wrote: “Bob - The DOE can really drop the ball, as far as hiring (even to the point of telling student teachers that there may be no jobs for them - what a gift of discouragement!)...”

When my wife was interviewed by the DOE she was approved and then informed in person to her face that there would be little need for her in Hawaii. When Josie came out of the interview she was devastated. That was a year ago.

Really interesting take on what you see happening, i.e. 1), 2), and 3.) I did not have a clue about that concept. Thanks! (Gives some hope)

My wife and I are not too concerned about what new salaries might look like. Money is always important but the bottom is our commitment to live on the BI. (Or Hawaii)

Thanks for sharing!

Best!
BobH

[BobH]

Carol,
All good points and you are correct about “virtually no school district in the country is escaping the effects of the economic downturn may slow the exodus of teachers from Hawaii” is right on too.

There is a certain issue about how the Hawaii DOE goes about hiring new teachers that Are Not special Ed teachers. New teachers are only placed after all others already in the system have an opportunity first. So the principals are forced to take whomever is out there already in the system before they can select a teacher such as my wife. That means that when new teachers are finally allowed to be interviewed, it may be the middle of July, August Sept or Oct. before it happens. In the case of my wife last year she had 4 opportunities to interview but well after she had taken a contract here in Arizona. (Oct)

Not many Highly Qualified teachers that want to teach can wait for the hawaii DOE to make up their minds about when and how to allow new teachers access to openings. Once again the kids get hurt.
But the system is what it is and that means that teachers like my wife have to simply hope for the best and keep on trying. Many won’t but we will.

Hey Carol: Aloha!!!! And thanks for your input here. Why don't you just hire Josie and we can end this thread? (smile)


Best!
BobH

[Carey]

I always recommend looking outside of the DOE - I do know that Kamehameha was looking for a teacher over the holidays...
I would also check at all of the Charters... many have a different look towards how things should be done added plus, there is usually more parental involvement... As a DOE sub, I have been able to see a broad spectrum of classroom management through administration...


It will be interesting to see what changes happen with the DOE super., Pat Hamamoto, gone... Not sure I believe anything will.... but....

ETA: In Sunday 1/3 Paper:
The DOE has 8 jobs posted
1 Fiscal specialist
1 Accounting specialist
2 Telcom networkers
2 Personnel specialists
1 Institutional specialist
1 Test developer

It almost seems as if they have no clue....