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808, this just struck me. You said: "society would build computers, but it takes SPECIALIZATION, and possibly i want to SELL THEM to go get some hamburgers, but if there is no economy i can only TRADE them for something... NOW THAT SUCKS,,,"
Do you hear how conditioned you are for hamburgers! The entire system has you a slave and is dangling the promise of a hamburger in front of your face! "If I don't get hamburgers I don't want to be free!" :^) This is why we do not revolt today, commercialization has conditioned us so well and made us a slave to our desires. (For more on this, dod a google video search for the BBC documentary "The Century of the Self")
And imagine that you did not have to barter and trade for a hamburger, but could just walk into a store, like it was your house, and the cook would just give it to you freely?
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There have been 90 replies to this thread but very few predictions. Could you guys take your Economics 101 discussions to your own thread? Thanks.
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I see the point you are making, but it has no valid conclusion. I have watched century of self, and i understand very clearly the brainwashing that is everywhere.
you sound like you are a fan of the model that the movie zeitgeist proposes. maybe i am wrong in your understanding, but..
"And imagine that you did not have to barter and trade for a hamburger, but could just walk into a store, like it was your house, and the cook would just give it to you freely?"
the problem with this is what if the cook does not want to give it away freely? Is this cook somehow an inherently different type of human than we have been throughout history? has social darwinism had its way with him and he is not the product of tons of future social evolution? If he is different because he has been "freed" from his brainwashing burdens, how did that occur? hash this out for me please.
I predict that pahoa burger king will be the busiest burger king on the east side of this island.
quote:
Originally posted by chrisb483
808, this just struck me. You said: "society would build computers, but it takes SPECIALIZATION, and possibly i want to SELL THEM to go get some hamburgers, but if there is no economy i can only TRADE them for something... NOW THAT SUCKS,,,"
Do you hear how conditioned you are for hamburgers! The entire system has you a slave and is dangling the promise of a hamburger in front of your face! "If I don't get hamburgers I don't want to be free!" :^) This is why we do not revolt today, commercialization has conditioned us so well and made us a slave to our desires. (For more on this, dod a google video search for the BBC documentary "The Century of the Self")
And imagine that you did not have to barter and trade for a hamburger, but could just walk into a store, like it was your house, and the cook would just give it to you freely?
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Prediction: Rob will close this topic! [  ][ ][ ]
Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,PB,ABR,CRB,CM,FHS
808.327.3185
johnrabi@johnrabi.com
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
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Well John, This and another topic are wandering off into Dogma Land to a large degree.
However Punaweb now has an Operating Committee and unless the firestorm is extreme it will be the OP that makes the decision, not just me. Five Punawebbers are on the committee. They are all well known contributors of long standing.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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It's funny Rob, when this tread started I thought it was a great idea and I was really looking forward to the postings. I sure didn't expect it to turn into what it has turned into. Open or closed, it doesn't matter to me, I'm already staying out of it! [ ][ ][ ]
Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,PB,ABR,CRB,CM,FHS
808.327.3185
johnrabi@johnrabi.com
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
Posts: 33
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"the problem with this is what if the cook does not want to give it away freely? Is this cook somehow an inherently different type of human than we have been throughout history? has social darwinism had its way with him and he is not the product of tons of future social evolution? If he is different because he has been "freed" from his brainwashing burdens, how did that occur? hash this out for me please."
You are still thinking like a capitalist and that is the problem. People would do what they want. No one is telling him to make hamburgers. But his contribution, if it is valuable to society will be understood naturally. No committees, no profit charts needed. Why would a man contribute by making hamburgers if no one wanted them.
Did your mother make you food and then charge you for it? In fact, the family is the most anarchist system we have functioning today. There was a need and she filled it. There is no need money in the house, why do you think this should not be a fractal of society.
I do not believe in social darwinism. It is a fallacy that brought hitler to power. And I do not agree with most if the zeitgeist movement. Stop trying to peg me in your own hole. I told you I advocate anarchism. If you want to know fully what that means I would suggest reading all of this.
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html
Look at the further comments in this thread, it is all about social pressure and control. You do not seem to mind this very much, yeah? Stay on topic! Don't deviate or they will shut you down and KILL the thread!
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PaulW: you have your e-mail turned off or not elsewise available in your profile. Please e-mail me at mgeary1@bak.rr.com it might be worth your while.
Aloha! ;-)
Aloha! ;-)
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This is where you and i differ
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secF2.html#secf22
There is a freedom allowed in selling oneself, it is a choice or not.
I see the contradiction that is trying be made but, based on other fundamentals I disagree.
IMHO operations outside the family unit are different than inside and for a good purpose. and yet inside the house there is an authoritarianism. I sure dont want people looking at me the way I look at one of my kids. Do you see the difference?
I am not trying to peg you in a hole i am trying to look for some sort of reference, i am glad you are clear on social darwinism. That you are linking me to the infoshop.org view on anarchism OK. you see we will get the thread shut if I ask you to get into the more specific details of your views, i am familiar with infoshop.org
well i am sure the slashing will begin, but for more predictions for the puna district
1. i predict the new pahoa longs will have a hard time keeping itself nice inside
2. the spot where punatic cafe was will stay empty
quote:
Originally posted by chrisb483
"the problem with this is what if the cook does not want to give it away freely? Is this cook somehow an inherently different type of human than we have been throughout history? has social darwinism had its way with him and he is not the product of tons of future social evolution? If he is different because he has been "freed" from his brainwashing burdens, how did that occur? hash this out for me please."
You are still thinking like a capitalist and that is the problem. People would do what they want. No one is telling him to make hamburgers. But his contribution, if it is valuable to society will be understood naturally. No committees, no profit charts needed. Why would a man contribute by making hamburgers if no one wanted them.
Did your mother make you food and then charge you for it? In fact, the family is the most anarchist system we have functioning today. There was a need and she filled it. There is no need money in the house, why do you think this should not be a fractal of society.
I do not believe in social darwinism. It is a fallacy that brought hitler to power. And I do not agree with most if the zeitgeist movement. Stop trying to peg me in your own hole. I told you I advocate anarchism. If you want to know fully what that means I would suggest reading all of this.
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html
Look at the further comments in this thread, it is all about social pressure and control. You do not seem to mind this very much, yeah? Stay on topic! Don't deviate or they will shut you down and KILL the thread!
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Paul, those are fair questions and I'll answer them.
As to why I didn't reply in the first quarter of the year--simple, as referenced in the thread--my computer was broken and it took 3 trips to HP to get it back and running.
As to what I'd suggested in retrospect-being privy to the information you and the other players had access to, well, I did. Here is the link to that "prediction." It's again, as I feel compelled to do, made in some detail--lettin' it all hang out--as detailed explanations and projections are far more difficult, interesting, and credible, and if proven accurate, mean a lot more. Fairly, it doesn't count as an annual prediction of course because, well, it's made well into the year as yours was. That link is here. You'll note by that time I too would be primed watching for a rally in the Dow, especially in nominal terms, restating a conviction that the bottom had been sounded. Errors again made, of course, as I underestimated how quickly we'd get to unemployment rates in the double digit range--but of course one is operating following moving goal posts. GM was leaving the Dow and Cisco was entering, which of course had an immediate impact, and past data was being revised and yet revised again. The index at this point doesn't even mean the same thing, and at this point it was obvious that a rally would be forced at all costs. I note that in suggesting that "the Dow means little to the economy" or some such. I understand that the U1 officially is estimated at 12.5 in october at this revision but haven't looked it up. Again I made a consistent error of being too conservative and optimistic. Again I'd suggest it was pretty good advice. If one were to compare apples to apples I think it would be hard in fact disingenuous to call any of that blanket "wrong." And again, as with the previous prediction, I feel quite vindicated that it was a good one, certainly best of class--which at this point may not mean much because it's the only one of its class. Of course you're welcome to see it however you'd best enjoy. I've made a lot of these calls and I'm sure if we dig far enough we can find something that was just flat off and bad thinking. Feel free, as I'm more than willing to learn from it. But to call any of these projections, including some of those offered by others arbitrarily "right" or "wrong" based on a deliberately and unrealistically narrow perspective is unfair, divisive, and misleading. And self-servingly so.
Here is the link:
http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8581&whichpage=6&SearchTerms=year
Towards the bottom of the page. Sorry again to the rest of Punaweb. I mean I really am done. I do my best to avoid these sorts of issues. I join the chorus to shut this thread down. It reflects poorly on us as a community and a culture and isn't constructive.
http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/
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