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READ-Geothermal Facts and Lower Puna Permits
#1
Geothermal Primer. Takes five minutes to read. Please sign petition in earlier post if you understand what is happening .Here it is........For those who care! If you grok this info please forward to all your friends.
Geothermal 101: First off. I am not a expert but I have made myself well informed about the hazards of Puna Geothermal Venture’s type of steam production and what I have found out is what I am sharing. You can go to punapono.com and get loads of gov docs and look around for yourself. I was notified by Bob Petricci about four months ago about the geothermal undersea cable being promoted by our fearless leaders ( they don’t fear us because we don’t come out in enough numbers to scare them) both in Oahu and here on the Big Island. Billy Kenoi and Fred Blas are our reps who have something other than the public interest in mind here on the BI. Ormat, the Israeli company who owns PGV has 14 more well permits all down Kapoho Rd. to four corners. Also, more permits are being pulled in the noni farms region and in the Pohoiki road area including near Issac Hale park. This will effect all lower Puna, no one will be exempt. That means you. They need to increase their output to get electricity to Oahu and Maui, although Ormat has already secured permits on Haleakala to do explorative wells. This will suck for Maui but we have our own problems right here, right now. These guys do not think out of the box. They have only compared geothermal to oil. That’s like asking if you want to be beaten with a hammer or a bat. Our so called leaders have never done a comparative study of solar, wind, fuel cell, hydro, smart grid and of course, just plain old conservation. 37% of Hawaii electric needs are for electric water heaters. Go solar water heaters and we just saved 37% of our needs. Pass a law excluding incandescent lights to the islands and we get closer to 50%. Pretty simple reasoning I say, but not for the simple minds promoting one of the more archaic and toxic and dangerous forms of geothermal extraction.

Ormat/PGV with HELCO’s ok and our monies ( we pay 6 times the rate mainlanders pay for electric rates due to some very questionable deals between HELCO, Ormat and the state) to utilize a binary technique whereby they use a mitigating fluid, in this case pentane to generate steam. Pentane is a highly flammable petrochemical that it on the EPA’s very dangerous list. One reason is when it blows it combines with other chemical such as the Hydrogen Sulfide that is released from mother Pele by men playing with fire and produces a even more toxic brew. Add all the other heavy metals being released and the other chemicals they use at the plant and this stuff is a mess. And they are allowed to leak 40 gallons a day plus a whole assortment of gasses released every day because the beautiful pristine agriculture land of lower Puna is allowed to be treated as a industrial mine due to our Dept. of Land and Natural resources renaming Pele’s steam a mineral and the state retains mineral rights. Who’s still with me? I went on a tour or the plant a couple of weeks ago and I asked Mike Kalakini, the plant manager, what is your worst nightmare? I was expecting him to say, another blowout like the one in 1991 where everyone needed to be evacuated. With no evacuation plan. Nope. He said his greatest fear is the 60,000 gallons of pentane they have on site going up in smoke. After reading this,http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1476.pdf
I totally understand his concern. Think of BP deepwater or other industrial accidents. Then there is the noise, light and vibration pollution that comes along with the drilling. You do not want to have these things in your neighborhood. But unless you and I stop them, they are coming. To a neighborhood very close. Soon. In 2006 they had a fire and lost all their equipment at that well. Do you remember? I don’t. Why. Secrets. Need to know basis. That kind of crap. I’m letting you know now.

So, where are we? Well, we had just got two bills passed through county council about a month ago after months of hard work. Bill 256 and 257. One essentially says, develop a evacuation plan specific to a geothermal accident. The EPA recommends this, but the county/state have not done one.

Do you know where to go if it blows and the trades are taking the toxic cloud to your home? The other bill says to take the money that Puna is given from the geothermal fund and do the health study of the geothermal plant and the problems that are associated with it that was supposed to have been done in accordance with the original documents signed. Put up adequate monitoring systems and lets get the peoples health and well being to the forefront before we develop any more of these toxic messes.

And then Billy Kenoi, our mayor vetoed them last Friday, after a call from Oahu. Where most of his campaign ( front page news, Sunday paper) money comes from.

That’s enough. Come downtown. Thursday, July 19th, 9:00 AM. County Council building. Google it. Testify that you support the bills and safety is always first. Your’s, your children’s and everyone’s is what this is about. Besides, if you didn’t already know this and do now, what are you going do? Stay home and do yoga, go surfing, sleep, hang out on facebook, do nothing. I don’t think so. You are better than that. Be there. Make friends. Make history. This is 2012 and it’s about people creating the new world. Action. Do It Now. Is what the new world is about. Sitting on the sidelines is the best way to get left behind. Done. Fini, Over and out. Aloha and Mahalo if you made it this far . You are a good person. Now, do the good thing. Damm, one more thing. Overturning Billy's veto will help Dominic Yagong get the Mayor's job and this is good for greenies.
Another bill this week is trying to force HELCO to up the number of folks that can hook solar up to the grid from 15% to 50 %. Lot's of real stuff happening right here. It's occupy here, not there. They are occupying there. Let's mind our own business with our fine Hawaiian minds. Adios for now.
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1476.pdf
nj.gov

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#2
You do realize you posted this *AFTER* the council meeting was long over?
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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#3
Thanks for bringing this to peoples attention even if you posted it after the meeting.

I really wanted to live off of Pohiki so I could ride my bike down to the ocean and all the fun places down off the red road like; kehena, ahalanui, and issac hale, BUT NO the only land cheap enough for me was like a stones throw away from the geothermal (hinalo/lauone st) and endless living in fear is not my thing!

I am really sad to see that soon many more people may have this "power plant" controlling where they want to live.

IF government is by the people for the people, then why the hell are we all wanting to let a power plant live in beautiful lower puna instead of us.

WAKE UP PEOPLE! this has been in the works for decades! why do you think the county / government never offered any services or paved roads, etc etc. OBVIOUSLY because they knew that land wasn't for PEOPLE, it was for POISON!


Cheers

rainyjim
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#4
I'm with Pahoated. I haven't heard any evidence that this is a bad, awful, terrible thing. Only conjecture, and loads of it. We had a load of hazardous materials delivered to us by mistake the other day, it was for Big Island Dairy. Did you know they use hazardous materials??? Yep. Sometimes hazardous materials are what makes things tick. As long as they're properly handled and disposed of, we don't have people picketing the Dairy farms and myriad of other industries for it. Geothermal is a damn site cleaner and less impact on our world than a reliance on a quickly depleting fossil fuels that get dumped by the ton regularly into our oceans, our ground water, etc., that further pollute as they're burned and used. I'm amazed that more Punatics aren't backing geothermal 110%. Seems that it's really more about being a NIMBY to me. Though I don't think we should be focusing on supplying any other islands with energy. We don't need to turn into the life support system to an insatiable beast of a metropolis. If there's hard evidence instead of conjecture, bring it forth!
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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#5
Thank you pahoated and Yurtgirl. I am glad to know that not everyone has jumped on the group psychosis band wagon.
The fact is we are dependent on some amount of electrical power. There are limited options to produce that power. Solar and wind are not reliable enough to produce clean power 24/7. For consistent power, the options available to us here are: burning diesel fuel, burning biofuel or geothermal. Geothermal opponents talk about how toxic it is yet produce only anecdotes about this concern. The fact that some people think they are somehow sick and this is therefore the fault of some nebulous geothermal emission is not evidence. I also hear many people in Puna talk about how vog severely affects them despite the fact that lower Puna has some of the cleanest air in the world! Anecdotes are not evidence no matter how much you want them to be.
As for the assertion about pentane on site being a hazardous concern, what about the millions of gallons of diesel shipped to and stored on the islands every year? And what about the emissions from all that burned diesel? At least the pentane is constantly recycled in a closed system.
I agree that monitoring is important and an evacuation plan seems prudent. I agree that Helco's monopoly benefits them more than the citizens. But I would really like these opponents to propose a realistic better solution to providing consistent 24/7 power in Hawaii. Until then, all the protesting is just a bunch of hot air. (Maybe we could use that instead of geothermal power?)
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#6
quote:
Originally posted by whalesong


So, where are we? Well, we had just got two bills passed through county council about a month ago after months of hard work. Bill 256 and 257. One essentially says, develop a evacuation plan specific to a geothermal accident. The EPA recommends this, but the county/state have not done one.

......The other bill says to take the money that Puna is given from the geothermal fund and do the health study of the geothermal plant and the problems that are associated with it that was supposed to have been done in accordance with the original documents signed.





You are correct in that one bill (257) is regarding an evacuation plan. However, there is much, much more to bill 256. Bill 256 is going to strap the County of Hawaii with purchasing homes and land in Leilani Estates at 130% of their value. The County will now also be strapped with paying the association dues on the homes and lots every year...forever. They will not be able to ever re-sellt hose homes or lands again. The County does not have the resources to purchase the land and homes at 130% of value and pay the association dues on the homes.

This bill would ruin what is arguablly the nicest sub division in Puna (Leilani Estates). It would ruin property value in that area, leave empty homes for squatters, cash strap the County and create a lot of un-wanted headaches for the area just to name a few things. Not to mention I'm sure a very long and expensive court battle.

Please take the time to actually read the bills and don't just list the items that make it appear that it's something it is not and to skew things to your point of view. People take the time to read these for yourself and educate yourself.
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#7
quote:
Originally posted by Hawaii Bound


This bill would ruin what is arguablly the nicest sub division in Puna (Leilani Estates). It would ruin property value in that area, leave empty homes for squatters, cash strap the County and create a lot of un-wanted headaches for the area just to name a few things. Not to mention I'm sure a very long and expensive court battle.

Please take the time to actually read the bills and don't just list the items that make it appear that it's something it is not and to skew things to your point of view. People take the time to read these for yourself and educate yourself.


Please also take the time to stand in Leilani Estates, and then to walk up right next to the PGV facility. I'm not sure someone with the name 'Hawaii Bound' has done that yet. The facility sounds like a jet airplane landing ... only it never stops. It just lands and lands and lands right next to your house, rattling the dishes and scaring the cat... endlessly. And the lights on at night while the drilling rattles your bones is destroying the local fauna. Great for propping up the property values in any up and coming area, I'd say! I can just picture the real estate agent on a tour: "No, no, please, ignore that Tyrannosaurus Rex that seems to be caught in a bear trap just over the ridge. Look at this open layout and updated kitchen!"

And also, while you are busy reading what Hawaii Bound would like to to thoroughly read, please also read the federal EPA guidelines which state that a 10 mile radius ought to exist between any such geothermal facility and any adjacent residential area. Then start pacing off the buffer (since you are already standing there, next to the fence)... I'm sure you'll come across a house before you've walked ten miles.

Not everybody is tearing their hair and rending their garments over this. Some of us are quietly watching while rules are ignored or subverted, while EIS studies are skipped, while requirements are invalidated to fast track this development. I'm glad you all love geothermal energy so much, but must you ram it down the rest of our throats without following the law? What's the rush? What's wrong with following the letter and the spirit of the law?
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#8
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated

BTW, this council meeting happened yesterday and almost none of the anti-geothermal bunch showed up.


The decision to delay the override effort was made prior to the start of the meeting, because Fred Blas was scheduled to be off island, and we all knew about that because we were paying attention. There will be support from Puna when Dominic presents his override.
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#9
I'm not personally in any rush. I'm not anti-rules, EIS studies or 'spirit of the law'. But I am anti-misinformation, and that's a lot of what's going on. Opposing it for actual reasons such as yours, DaVinci, are appropriate IMHO. I am anti-continuing to be so reliant on foreign, fossil fuels in the face of a better solution.

Why do more drills, etc. have to be next door to Leilani? Aren't there other proposed areas? I have to say though, when I've been in Leilani I did not hear this noise you're talking about. No airplane noise, no T-Rex. It was certainly not even close to the sound of the helicopter barrage we get in Fern Forest daily. Hmm... How do I get to this place where you can hear it like that in Leilani?
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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#10
PGV is on an 800 acre parcel leased from the Lyman estate. For reasons unknown to me the facility is very near the edge of the property.

Just FYI
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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