Tankless hot water.

[VancouverIslander]

I'm finally at the stage with my place in Eden Roc that I can think about hot water. Due to building code, I'm looking at tankless propane hot water. Does any one have any suggestions as to what I can use that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and will meet whatever standards are required? Reliability is also a good feature. And the ability to heat water for a shower or laundry.

[Royall]

I've had a Takagi Jr in use for 7 years without a problem. When my filters are fresh, 2 showers can be had at the same time. I just priced one out for a friend to install and they are about 800 bucks. There are cheaper units out there but you get what you pay for. I know David M here on Punaweb is running (I think) three of them in his home. The Takagi does have to be plugged into 120v to operate and thus does not use a pilot light that can blow out.

http://www.takagi.com/index.php?product_id=101&page_id=2

Royall

Hale O Na Mea Pa`ani

[Bullwinkle]

I have had luck passing final with a very small electric tank (2 gal) heater

Bought some time to figure out just what I wanted - 100% solar or ....

[MarkP]

Hmmm. I finally got a Bosch Aquastar 1600H LP going. I say finally because it came broken out of the box. I had purchased it on sale from Lowes for $214. It was sitting out front one morning when I walked in. I thought I had really scored until I started reading reviews online. The Bosch warranty people effectively abandoned their product. Along the way to showing their true colors they insisted that I hire a professional plumber to diagnose the problem. When I contacted Michael of Michael's repair he started briefing me on what to say and how to deal with the Bosch warranty people like I was a crack whore who had to testify against the mayor in court. I knew things didn't look good then. I reported that things had progressed to the point where they had asked for the opinion of a professional installer. He sighed and agreed to call them. They would not even connect him with a service tech because he was not standing in front of the appliance. I could have upped the ante by paying Michael $100 to come out and continue the drama in the hopes of earning a replacement part for free. If I got the part from Bosch for free I would then be in for $300. Based on Michael's past experience, my present experience, and Michael saying "Forget it. They have abandoned their product", I gave up on the warranty. Based on the price of $430 for a new tank style water heater, three independent diagnoses that concluded the little gray control box was to blame (mine, Michael's, and the girl behind the counter at Hilo Propane when she said "Oh, a Bosch. It's the control box"), and my own pigheaded nature, I decided to go even deeper and buy the offending part from Michael, which he had in stock, for $208. I am now in $422 plus lots more for misc. parts that I would probably have had to spend on a tank style as well.

As an aside, the appliance does now make hot water although the "new" little control box is still somewhat defective in that there is a little red LED that is supposed to come on for a couple of seconds at start-up that never comes on. I am still hooking up my shower and sinks so I can't tell you yet how user friendly the heater is or of course how dependable and long lasting it is. It does however make a nice trophy on my wall similar to a moose head for which the meat came out to be $100/lb after factoring in all the costs of the hunt.

I have a Bosch washer and dryer at home and so far they have been great, but Michael and his wife Rusty could not say anything good about Bosch warranty service. Rusty said "they're not what they used to be". Michael quickly diagnosed the problem. He knows the equipment. He has their parts in stock. They told him to put it where the sun don't shine. He had no choice but to convey their response to me. I feel obliged to pass this info on to the rest of you.

[VancouverIslander]

Apparently now you need to go tankless unless you use solar pre-heating. The extra expense is pushing us toward tankless. Thanks for the Takagi suggestion - hadn't heard of them before. Rheem is pricey at HD, but can be had at a decent price from Amazon. pexsupply.com has a good price on Takagi. Any suggestions on where to buy locally?

ps: my last moose hunt came in at around $8/lb - have some steaks thawing out for the bbq tonight.

[jackson]

I have a Bosch that has worked fine for some years. Controlling the temp is a little squirelly but the water is hot right away. Propane is $$$$$$$

[Royall]

Propane is expensive BUT I'd rather run my dryer, hot water heater, and range on gas that to pay the cost of electricity to HELCO. They are such a rip off do to their monopoly and poor management.

Royall

Hale O Na Mea Pa`ani

[MarkP]

If you read on the internet the concern is often raised about using too small a propane tank. The propane is stored as a liquid but must evaporate before it leaves the tank. In doing so it cools the rest of the tank. Heat must be conducted into the remaining liquid from the ambient environment. As the liquid in the tank shrinks to a mere puddle in the bottom the surface area of the blob of liquid decreases until the heat transfer can't keep up. For very high demands even a relatively full 20 lb tank doesn't provide enough surface area or so I have read. My heater has a fairly high capacity of over 100,000 btu/hr so I have been concerned. According to the folks at Hilo Propane I will have no problem. They have never seen it happen. Of course it never gets very cold in Puna. How cold is too cold? Apparently at -40 deg F you can carry liquid propane around in a bucket like water. Its vapor pressure at -40 is the same as ambient, similar to water at 212.

The first visible symptom is that frost will start to form on the outside of the tank Anyone ever seen this here?

[Royall]

I'm using a pair of 100# (23gal)tanks on an automatic change over valve like on an RV. Never seen any frosting of the tanks. I have seen a bit of frost on my 4-5 gallon tank when using a weed burner.... but hell, that really sucks the gas!!

Royall

Hale O Na Mea Pa`ani

[jackson]

I'm in Volcano. It has gotten as low as 42 since I have had the heater and no problems. I was using 100lb tanks as recommended, but I switched to 60lb to save my life.