Food stamps and Hawaii

[unknownjulie]

I was locked out of the other thread, so decided I'd have to start my own. I am asked on a weekly basis here in Hawaii, "where is your EBT card?". Sooooo, I had to have a discussion with my oldest son about this. HE thinks that "this EBT card is a great thing"! NOT! Having jobs that paid a "living wage" in takehome money would be far better!
Currently in Hawaii the younger workers are paying a much larger amount of money into the social security system than the "current hawaiian retirees" did. It is the people having babies that are usually not white, or rich these days- that are funding the current retirees. The SNAP program is the gov't's attempt to remediate this problem. IMO
IN the private sector in Hawaii, the same thing is going on. If you get hired at HIlo MEdical Center, you have the "choice" of paying between 6-9% of your salary into a "retirement fund". The fund is paying people who are already retired, and paid very little of "their own money" into the system. A lot of it was "given to them". This 6-9% is on top of the social security taxes that are taken out (unless I have it mixed up, it's been awhile since I read through the papers) This really does "eat into" the takehome pay for workers.
IMO the people on foodstamps need the food, so give it to them.

[unknownjulie]

I also believe that if Hilo Medical Center is sold to that Mainland Conglomerate that the existing pensions may be cut. Our economy right now is just a mess. There isnt the money/opportunity that used to exist.

[Kapohocat]

I do not know if it was the effect of the boom and recession but I am seeing a lot more of the group that is in high school now looking more towards trade schools than college. Maybe it's because their parents can not afford it, and they see the entitlement programs begin to fade away.

The group of kids that were under 12 or 13 in 2009 seem to be more realistic and harder working at this point than the groups that are 20-40 currently. They know about iphones and all the toys but they seem to be keeping theirs longer. (Although I am only basing my opinion on a few kids here in Hawaii and a couple in another state, I am hearing this same thing from others too. I wonder what HCC is looking at on enrollment on their trade programs. I think the marketing people are seeing this trend already.)

I think as that young group comes into it's own, we will be seeing a lot more self-sufficiency that we see now, and we'll be seeing something more like our grandparents in the "use as long as it works" and recycling and repurposing. Why? Because that group is seeing that pensions and SS and even welfare are not where it is at. Having a real skill, not just a college education alone is where it is at. Taking care of what you have is better than having nothing.

In Hawaii County, this is going to be a good thing. We do not have world class facilities to attract the brain trust kids (except in Astronomy). We do need the skilled people to fix the plumbing, to work on the Prius's, to do all the things that used to be considered honorable work, before it become blue collar/white collar.

A real skill will keep you employed longer than being a mortgage broker. I know mortgage brokers in Hilo that now have gone back to what their skill was and are surviving on those skills.

[Hawaii Bound]

I think you are looking at this all wrong. The people at Hilo Medical Center are putting into their own 403B (It's like a 401K) and that is a good thing. That is their money and it is NOT funding people who are already retired. Yes, it would be awesome if we didn't have to put into SS. However, I am pretty confident that SS is a lot of people's retirement plan and that is not a good thing and most of those people wouldn't have saved a dime regardless. People should be responsible for their own retirement and not rely on the government for EVERYTHING like a good chunk of the people on this island do. They don't look at anything as a benefit just an entitlement. I see people at Costco using EBT to purchase steak, crab legs, etc. They are purchasing stuff I can't afford!

That's the problem with the younger generation, why work if they government will support you. They want a car just like yours, they want a house just like yours, but it should be given too them. They want it because the are entitled to it. It's B.S. Why work if you can just pop out another kid and get an instant raise. I use to own a business on the mainland and I would get calls asking if I was hiring. If I said no, I would have people come in and ask me to sign a sheet saying that they were trying to get a job but I wasn't hiring. They weren't looking for a job just a free ride. They would call until they got the answer they were looking for then go into that business.

You have the whole SS thing wrong too. I read a post from you awhile back blaming the Baby Boomers for taking all the money from SS and hoarding all the good jobs - B.S. Did it every occur to you that they are working because they have to?????? SS was at an influx until the government literally stole the money with IOUs and never paid it back. It's not the baby boomers that are to blame. My father is retired on the mainland and works whenever he can because he doesn't have a large enough retirement and SS isn't enough. However, according to you, he is hoarding and the black plague that is wiping out SS.

I have read several things from you regarding the minimum wage and it should be higher, force business to pay a reasonable wage. The economy will support only so much. When I was a small business owner the minimum wage was less than it is now and I had a hard time making it. Small business can't afford the higher wages and would simply fold. If the wage goes up, the cost of goods, etc go up even more. It doesn't add up. I think one of the biggest problems is that Americans expect a $20 - $30 job an hour with just a high school diploma. That's what I call entitlement.

So back to the original post and point. Having people at Hilo Medical Center put into their own retirement is a good thing.

Make sure you go to work today, millions on welfare depend on you!

[unknownjulie]

Kapoho, I think the switch has already happened. The advice I give to my boys is, "Learn to do something that other people cannot do- whether it be involving your brain, or your hands". But I also force them to do math as much as possible, because statistically, the "mathies" have higher employment. It doesnt matter if it translates into being able to "build something from scratch", or "figure out a logarithm involving stocks". I still worry though, that they will have to move to a foreign country to find the opportunity that used to be available here in the US.

[kalakoa]

EBT is a band-aid on the broken economy. Consider that full-time at minimum-wage doesn't break the official "poverty line" ... now remember that most minimum-wage jobs aren't full-time because employers don't want to pay benefits ...

What's worse is that these low-earners have a huge ancillary cost: they (and their employers) must still manage the overhead of payroll tax deductions, with most (if not all) withholding eventually returned by IRS -- if these people were simply tax-exempt, that money would go directly into the local economy.

Unfortunately it's not just a "Hawaii problem", so look for this thread to be locked down...

[unknownjulie]

HawaiiBound. I used to be involved with a "voluntary 403B plan" and what I was reading about at the medical center was not this type of plan. It might be a hybrid, it was a while back, but it was not "voluntary" and the reason it is "mandatory" is to try and make up for the deficit that the retirement fund is currently experiencing.
I was a state employee in another state 20 yrs ago and was given a lot of "Free" money. The new hires are not given this now.
IF the newer employees have to fund everything on their own, then their income is low enough to get food stamps. Which is my point! The gov't is just redistributing money. IMO.
The current retirees are drawing more out of the social security system than they put into it.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

quote:

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Originally posted by unknownjulie

younger workers are paying a much larger amount of money into the social security system than the "current hawaiian retirees" did.

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The Social Security Withholding tax has not changed much since 1984, which for someone retiring this year, would be most of their working life.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

The reason it was increased at that time, is because the hospitalization portion went up. The reason that went up is because prior to 1984 you could go into the hospital for a week, and your bill would be $500. The rate you pay into the hospitalization part is proportional to the cost at the time.

Someone who is retiring this year, has paid into Social Security for 45-50 years, and they get a measly 3% return on their money over all those years. Take a look at how much you would have, if you had invested $1000 in IBM, or Microsoft or Apple back in the day. Have you ever seen the movie Forrest Gump? He didn't get independently wealthy investing in Social Security.

Retired people who paid into the Social Security system are not taking money from young people. They are getting their own money back.

Now there are people who get disability, Medicaid, etc, who have not paid into the system, or not paid their full share. Do not confuse them with retirees who have paid for their own retirement. Disability recipients, Medicaid recipients, etc are like people who receive food stamps. They are getting assistance, but did not pay into a system to get it.

[Hawaii Bound]

My wife works at Hilo Medical Center, she has a 403B retirement plan there. No, it is not voluntary but we would have put into it even if it wasn't.

Trust me, my father is not getting back more than he put into the system. Why do you think they are getting more than they put into it? The only people who should be getting money from SS that didn't put into would be spouses who didn't work and their spouses passed and the children of people of people who have passed. However, their parents and spouses put into it. If I am not mistaken, children of people who have passed can only draw until they are 18. I would have to research that to be 100% sure but I thought I had read that at sometime.

As a business owner, for every nickel that my employees paid into SS I had to match. So the SS was getting double paid for each person putting into and is still having issues.

Like I said earlier, I would love to not have to pay into SS and been able to invest that money myself. However, the vast majority of Americans would have just spend that money regardless and been up the creek without a paddle come retirement and the government would have stepped in regardless.

SS is actually a good thing IF it wouldn't have been robbed by IOUs. But that is JMHO.

Kapohocat, I hope what you are seeing is the new norm because that is not what I have seen at all. I just see the younger generation asking everything to be handed to them because you have it. I really, really hope that what I am witnessing is not the norm and you are seeing is.

[unknownjulie]

HawaiiBound. If your wife has worked at HMC for a while, then she may be grandfathered in to a better "plan". Which is also my point. It may also differ, depending on if you are "management" or "worker" or "payscale type". I dont remember, but I know I was pretty much horrified when I added up the numbers for me!