If You "Think" You Own A Lot In Tiki Gardens...

[toucano]

I am posting an email I wrote to a woman posting as Nancy who had questions about the Tiki Gardens subdivision. My email was bounced as undeliverable. Perhaps she will read it here.

But my "thoughts" about Tiki Gardens and my personal dilemma might be of interest to people who bought a lot there or are thinking about buying a lot there. My advice? Make sure you really ARE in Tiki Gardens!

Nancy

I read your postings about buying lots in Tiki Gardens. I don't want alarm you, but please check and make certain whether or not the lots that you bought are really in Tiki Gardens.

I know that sounds strange, but I bought a lot that was supposed to be in Tiki Gardens very close to where it sounds like your lots are only to find out that it was really in a subdivision called Aina Pua. As near as I can tell, Aina Pua was "carved" out and created LONG ago, as a separate subdivision from lots that were part of the original Tiki Gardens. Apparently you have been in the area, and if you are on one of the nice paved streets, you are probably in Aina Pua. But DON'T take MY word for that!

Why does it matter? Well it may or may not matter to you. It depends on what you plan on doing there and HOW you plan on doing it. Tiki Gardens does not have any CC&Rs and pretty much the people there can do what they please (for good/bad). Aina Pua DOES have CC&Rs. I wanted to build a small cabin 400-500 sq. ft., but the minimum per CC&R is 800 sq. ft. You are also not allowed to live in any temporary structures while you build if your lot is in Aina Pua.

Aina Pua does not have an active homeowners association, but the residents do seem to look out for "flagrant" violators. They will work with you. They just want to keep the area nice.

Why this confusion about Tiki Gardens/Aina Pua exists is a bit convoluted. If your lots are in Aina Pua, it should have been disclosed to you before you bought that you were in Aina Pua and that there were CC&Rs. Maybe it was. I was not told and it has put me in one heck of a bind that may well end up in very messy litigation.

Again, it may not matter if you are building a house close to 800 sq. ft. and don't plan on "camping" on your lot(s) while you build. And I sure don't want to be an alarmist. The reality is that the CC&Rs ARE a good thing and the reason you don't see eyesores there! But I was blindsided because I was not told about the CC&Rs and right now I am in the middle of site improvement (my septic is going in now), my plans (for a house too small to meet the CC&Rs) are at the permitting department, and I am not a happy camper.

I am leaving to go back to the mainland in 2 days and my whole situation is up in the air.

Now, who can tell you what subdivision you are in? Maybe your real estate agent or title insurance company knows, but I am discovering that THEY don't know. They look at the map that says Tiki Gardens that does not show Aina Pua. Why? Again, a long convoluted story. SHOULD they know? You bet.

Toucano

[adias]

Sorry to hear about your problem. How does one find the CC&R for a subdivision.

I heard that Orchidland did'nt have strict CC&R but never bothered to find out exactly what they do have.



Ajit

[nanasohana]

Did you find Aina Pua on the county tmk maps or is this something someone local is telling you? Our lots are on Sandalwood, the furthest street going west.

[Lucy]

Maybe the homeowners association or the building dept. Although I know that they are so busy. Did the asociation leave you a contact Toucano?


Having another Great day in Paradise, Wherever that Maybe!

[Lucy]

"I wanted to build a small cabin 400-500 sq. ft., but the minimum per CC&R is 800 sq. ft. You are also not allowed to live in any temporary structures while you build if your lot is in Aina Pua."

Toucano
Maybe you could change it to include lots more covered lanai area, but sounds like you need a different plan, huh?
The other option is theassociation should let you live on your property, like if you are watching for theft of your materials, if you live in a travel trailer.
You just get it liscened then you don't have to renew that annually if you do not drive it off the lot.


Having another Great day in Paradise, Wherever that Maybe!

[toucano]

I found out about the CC&Rs from people that lived there who gave me a copy of them. As I said, MY objection is that I was not informed prior to closing about the CC&Rs.

Some subdivisions without CC&Rs have a lot of unpermitted construction that are not always built very well (to be charitable). It looks like Aina Pua has avoided too many problems BECAUSE they have CC&Rs and they do attempt to enforce them.

As to how to determine if a subdivision has CC&Rs and if so, what they are? I would ask my real estate agent to check it out and GET IT IN WRITING! I trusted my agent when he told me that my lot was in Tiki Gardens and that there were no CC&Rs. BAD mistake. Why he thought that a lot that was in Aina Pua was in Tiki Gardens is a long story that I don't want to go into here. Is there the possibility of a similar problem with other subdivisions? I don't know, but probably not too likely. I think this one just "fell through the cracks" as they say. Again I am being charitable.

As far as living in a temporary structure while constructing? Well they are hesitant to allow that because "Temporary" all too often becomes "permanent". Is it fair? It wasn't in MY plans to rent while I built, but I'll deal with it.

And about lanai, I think that in Hawaii covered and enclose lanai is considered actual living area. Possible solution that has been considered, but not one I'm too keen on as looking through screens is like looking through fog to me.

I'm sure that it will all work out, but this situation was about the last thing I expected to have happen as I did more due dilligence that the average buyer ever thinks about doing. Like paying a pin finder to find all 4 pins BEFORE submitting an offer. Driving over 300 miles looking at different lots before buying this one. If I can be blindsided like this, it unfortunately can happen to anyone.

The lesson? Let the buyer beware, don't take anything for granted, and put all of your questions and concerns IN WRITING and make the real estate agent put their answers IN WRITING. If it is too much trouble for them to do that, find a different one.

[Lucy]

I feel badly for you Toucano, it seems you were not given the correct information and treated poorly. Unfortunately the realtors have the advantage in their hand in that it falls in that don't know so can't prove it kinds of situation. They don't ask so didn't tell you wrong. It is only my opinion but you do have to have an ethical realtor who is willing to forego the dollars to tell you about things like this ahead of time and take the time to find you a piece of property that fits. Unfortunately I have read about lots of things happening that don't sit well with the sales there. Yours isn't that unusual.
I had one realtor that I contacted for an appointment a month in advance to see in Kona. I got there and he had prepared his standard notebook of properties to see and handed it to me and they were all in the area I specified that I did not want to see. How is that for paying attention. then he said he would correct it. He never did and I called back a few times and he never retured my calls. This was in 2000, when it was not so busy and there was lots of time, I was there for 30 days. You know him from the KW forum, he posts often. It is not Mr. Rabi in case you are thinking of him. This is not the only gross errors that I have seen or heard about.
I have often wondered too about sales hype of realtors saying that there are others who are bidding on this property and you then bid more to over bid them and then it is not really the case. I don't see how one can really find out that there are others bidding at the same time for the property. They have that continquency on them, that I do not understand.
Tell us how it goes Toucano and if you get it all straightened out or if you have to resell your property or what you deciede to do.
Lucy

Having another Great day in Paradise, Wherever that Maybe!

[toucano]

As far as honesty goes for real estate people who are selling Puna property, I don't know if they are any better/worse that on the mainland. I haven't looked for property on the mainland, so I can't comment. What I will say about real estate in Puna is that real estate people seem to be VERY lazy and totally ignorant about property (at least on the lower end). It seems like most are unwilling to give you more than a subdivision map and a vague "The listing says it is close to power pole 24." Then you are pretty much on your own.

The reality is that for a long time I don't think that the Puna District was considered by real estate people to be "the best" area to live in. There are a ton of lots listed for sale now and many more that are not listed that were sold back when they were less than $5K. With the recent rapid increase in the sale price for lots in the Puna area, real estate people are now flogging them with superlatives about how great they are and the last affordable area of Hawaii. Well they are affordable, but I don't see Puna lots as a great investment at current prices IF you think you can buy and flip quick for a profit. I could be wrong. I personally like the subdivision I bought in, but I bought with the intent to build and not as an investment to flip the lot.

My advice to mainlanders thinking of buying is to allocate plenty of time here to look at lots. And unless to find an exceptional real estate salesperson, do not expect them to spend much time helping you go to look at lots. In all probability, you will be on your own.

As far as my particular problem about being sold a lot in a different subdivision goes? I need to put sorting that one out on the back burner for the moment. I'm busy buying building materials on the mainland to ship over the Hawaii. I found it way too frustrating to hear "6 to 8 weeks to order that for you..." when I asked about building materials there. Not to mention the prices on the mainland are usually much cheaper. I won't even begin to pass along my thoughts on building codes and building practices there .

[adias]

toucano,
If you can share with us....what type of building material are you buying from the mainland what what is your net savings?

Seems like cost of shipping would kill your savings??

Thanks
Ajit

Ajit

[toucano]

I needed to ship household goods over. The cost from the PacNW is about $4K for a 20' container delivered to my house for packing and then to Port of Hilo where I need to deal with it.

I'm buying tools I needed/wanted, stainless steel/galvinized fasteners, pressure treated plywood, hurricane ties/brackets, tongue and groove cedar, cedar fencing gates, TYVEK house wrap, refrigerator, oven, dehumidifiers, ceiling fans, lighting, shower, sinks, toilet, rebar, and on... and on... and on. Yes, I will even have some sheetrock shipped since it is about $12.50 a sheet at Home Depot in Hilo and 1/2 of that at the Home Depot where I am. I have the room in the container and will try and use it all.

Would it pay to do it if I didn't already need to ship? Probably not really worth it. But I have heard of people who have had their house designed for Hawaii and then had EVERYTHING shipped over and save a substantial chunk of change.

It is also a lot of work to chase things down to buy if you are on a budget and not in a position to do all of your shopping in one or two places.

One thing about Hawaii that I find harder to deal with than the often high prices of building materials there is the lack of availability when you need something. I would really rather spend my money in Hawaii and if I can, I will buy from a smaller locally owned place rather than give my money to Wal-Mart or Sears. But I don't have the time to waste waiting for something to be shipped from the mainland because NO ONE has it there.