Sleeping with the enemy...

[Dave M]

I decided to start a new thread as opposed to highjacking the "Big Box" thread.

One of my concerns about Wallmart is the quality of the products they offer. I didn't just start this recently. But, in light of the recent events regarding import products as well as the Big Box issue I think it's a very important topic.

First let me say that I have a full understanding of capitalism. The thing that I'm unsure of is capitalism left un-checked. What sets America apart from other countries is our democratic system. It's this very democratic system that has kept our capitalistic system in some form of check as far as quality control, labor etc...

Now as we strive in this new millennium to see our capitalistic system expand to an international level we have to be aware that as these other countries become active in the market place they will not have to face any or as much regulatory scrutiny as our US corporations do.

It's important to acknowledge the fact that there is more to the issue than just what we hear regarding child labor and slave labor etc.. (that's bad butt..)

In an International capitalistic system it will have to rely entirely on the fundamental properties of true capitalism. The bottom line is that those who win these overseas contracts to provide our goods don't have to deal with our 1.Labor laws 2.Health regulations 3.Environmental

Soo until there is an international body to hold other countries accountable for lead based painted toys etc.. we will have to count on "True Capitalism" in that the consumer or end-user will have to be the quality control for these products.

Understand, I don't hate China. China is just notorious for their lacking health and labor laws not to mention their weak if not non existing environmental laws.

So in this very instance it is befallen on you/me "us" as the consumer to to make a difference.

Those that are actually still reading are thinking "get off your soapbox dave" But listen this is about your kids or even your Kids kids.

1.Look on the bottom of the item where was it made? Are there other options on the shelf? what's the price diff.

2.Always tell the cashier I'd really like to see more items available from the US and Japan (yes they're much better) on your shelves.

3.Stop the mnger of the walmart,cosco, target etc... and tell them. Always be nice. The more people that do it the sooner it'll change.

The recent stories about pet food and toys with 500 times the amount of lead as tolerable are just the tip of the iceberg.

Folks, I know, for some of us, it's hard to make these decisions for financial reason. Ever little items add up thus making it hard to make ends meet. But all I ask is that we start being aware of it and see if we can make a difference.

(This post is should be read while humming God Bless America)




Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"

[emorata]

Hi Dave,

That was a very well thought out observation about the market, consumerism, international standards, multi-national business and plain greed - it is a viscious cycle....on a basic level - you as a the consumer can decide this product is cheap and fits my budget, i know its cheap, i subconsciously know that is of poor quality and will probably fall apart in a finite timeframe - we are a throw away society....but if you can decide whether or not you really need this object/toy/whatever then you can decide what your choices are.....unfortunately big corporations like walmart, target, kmart produce products for the masses that want the cheapest price with minimal oversight to quality, safety, longevity, etc - its a vicious cycle....but my personal thoughts have always been that you get what you pay for....if its dirt cheap, don't expect it to last long or have any consumer benefits to be a corporate concern.

Unfortunately, it is the unprotected in society can afford these products at these price points and are taken advantage of, how can we pay 3 times the amount for something made in america, when at one point alot was made in america...

No easy answer but to take control of your own needs and what you can afford to purchase and have time for your own personal oversight.

[Bob Orts]

My concern is that there is no way to tell what is and isn't "Made in America". For that matter, what is "made in America"? Is it manufactured, built, assembled, finished, or packaged? There are probably hundred of other lead painted products from China that have long ago had their origin obliterated through global commerce and could just as easily carry a Made in America label.

Look at all the "Product of Hawaii" labels on many things yet the label somewhere states made in Bangladesh for a company in Brazil sold via a Mexican distributor for labeling by a Canadian company. How Hawaii is that?

[LeeE]

I remember before, "Free Trade, when a single person working full time, could support an entire family. Tennis shoes cost around $20.00. As always...

Aloha,
Lee
http://members.cruzio.com/~lionel/event

[John S. Rabi]

I usually stay out of discussing subjects like this, but here is my 2c worth. Every employee wants to make $50/hour with full benefits and buy a quality tennis shoes for $20. It just doesn't work. The Americal workers forced the companies to move the production to a cheap labor market.

Aloha,
John S. Rabi, ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,RB
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"

[Carey]

Just a small twist on Johns' thread
When I was young, families could buy less, not just that there was less products, but basic living took more out of the family paycheck. Our family could not afford a TV, a second car, more than 2 pairs of shoes per kid, we had one telephone, we didn't have book backpacks (and of course this was pre calculator, computer, cell phones and all of the "basic nesseccities" of life today). Oh, and we were not poor, in fact we were in the middle to upper middle class!
It is American CONSUMERISM that has spawned the cheap labor markets.
The basic supply/demand curve cannot keep up with this countries desire for more.

[Dave M]

[i]""Every employee wants to make $50/hour with full benefits and buy a quality tennis shoes for $20. It just doesn't work.""[i]


I won't argue that for a minute. I'll go a step further and say that the unions added to the exodus of jobs as well.

[i]""The Americal workers forced the companies to move the production to a cheap labor market[i]

But in the same since I don't think that is entirely the cause. It cannot be denied that we have a higher standard of labor, envrionmental laws etc...

As emorata aludded to "its a vicious cycle" Add to the fact inflation and cost of living and it gets even more intricate.

I'm not against import. I just want it to be safe and I don't want the labor that build/creates it to be slaves and I'd like to see some environmental responsibility.

Blessings,
dave


"Sometimes your the bug and sometimes your the windshield"

[Rob Tucker]

Here is a compelling formula for anticipating the future:

We Americans comprise 5% of the world's population and consume 25% of the world's resources to maintain our standard of living.

Anyone expect that ratio to change? Stay the same?

[bystander]

quote:

---

Here is a compelling formula for anticipating the future:

We Americans comprise 5% of the world's population and consume 25% of the world's resources to maintain our standard of living.

Anyone expect that ratio to change? Stay the same?

---

Hmmm. The Chinese comprise way more than 5% of the world's population. I would say it's close to 50%. What happens when their rate of consumptions comes close to ours?

[dakine]

for me the big box verse mom and pop issue has always been a question of quality. when the big boxes started showing up I was all for the lower prices and ease of shopping etc., but very quickly I gave up on them.

long before all the recalls, I heard a piece on npr about how walmart makes their vendors sign agreements where they would provide them with goods that would drop in price by 5% per year. the article focused on levi jeans, showing that in order to make the walmart model work levi (instead of providing walmart with their standard jean) went to china, set up a new factory, and made their own cheap knock-offs in order to provide walmart with a jean that has the levi branding but is cheap enough to meet the strict walmart pricing model. in other words walmart is not only inexpensive, it is crap that will fall apart way earlier than what we are used to. I believe the walmart model is flawed and will not succeed over the long run.

when home depot came to the island I was building my home, and yes I looked to them to be a great alternative to hpm etc. I bought all my plumbing fixtures from them, and when I got to installing them I found 1/3 of the stuff I bought to be defective. I literally had to remove a toilet after the plumber installed it, because of gross defects. when I investigated this I found that home depot has a policy where by they knowingly allow their suppliers to flush a percentage of their defective goods through them in exchange for home depot paying lower prices on the whole lot.

also, I do not believe the big box model is healthy in an island economy. currently we depend on tourism to bring in fresh dollars while we turn around and spend those dollars at suppliers that immediately take that money off island. this has never made sense to me, especially in light of the fact that nobody seems especially happy about being so dependent on the the tourism industry. All told I believe that spending money locally, when what I want/need is available from a local merchant, is by far the better bargain.