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I have owned property in HPP for a number of years and have moved to Hawaii as our only and permanent home in July of this year. We are planning to build on our HPP ocean front lot early next year. We recently received from the County of Hawaii Planning Department approval for construction of a single family dwelling on our property.
The approval was subject to several conditions, among them, the following:
“In order to ensure the coastal access for fishing and hiking purposes the public has enjoyed for many years in this area, the applicant shall provide lateral public access along the 60-foot wide portion of the Shoreline Setback Area along the top of the sea cliff.”
We have also been told by neighbors that we should tell people that they are NOT welcome on our land at all - this is to limit property owner liabilities, and allow for reasonable insurance premiums. Whatever the reasons, the issue of lateral shoreline access seems to bring out varying opinions.
We have researched public documents relative to public access: Hawaii Revised Statues (205A-2, etc.) and Hawaii County Code Chapter 34: Public Access), but would like subdivision specific information. Does anyone have any specific records/documents for HPP or other subdivisions - that pertain to land title conditions for shoreline access?
Mahalo.
Note: a previous thread brought up this topic - see Waiopea Conservation Area.
would you mind saying which of the oceanfront fishing areas you'll be building near? On Kaloli Pt, or Beach Rd, or the southernmost margin?
I'm not clear what you're proposing you would do if you follow the neighbors' advice. Clearly the County thinks it is legal for them to impose this condition on you, would you consider fighting them? Or ignoring the condition after you agree to it to get your permit?
Wasn't the setback and public access requirement disclosed to you when you bought the property?
I'm confused. It's generally a good idea for a private property owner to discourage the public from crossing over land where no easement rights have been established, but in this case the rights to cross your property pre-existed your tenure, no?
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quote:
...“In order to ensure the coastal access for fishing and hiking purposes the public has enjoyed for many years in this area, the applicant shall provide lateral public access along the 60-foot wide portion of the Shoreline Setback Area along the top of the sea cliff.”
We have also been told by neighbors that we should tell people that they are NOT welcome on our land at all - this is to limit property owner liabilities, and allow for reasonable insurance premiums...
Scott - I have been working with this extensively in reagrds to Waiopae - and honestly I dont think insurance companies lower premiums for making people feel "unwelcome". What some of my clients have done (and they only have a 40' shoreline setback) is put a "no trespassing sign" up at the setback limit. I would ask your insurance company what they require to keep your premium lower. Making people feel "unwelcome" may not be the best choice. What one of Seaside Bob's clients did is make friends with the fisherman who accessed the shoreline in front of his house - and those fisherman actually saved his house from theft when he was gone. Another client positively addressed the issue by creating a beautiful path in the exact same path that the fisherman had been using to access the shore to the side of their yard. Win win for all.
Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 217-7578
http://bluewaterpm.125mb.com/index.html
"We help make building your dream home a reality"
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quote:
...I'm confused. It's generally a good idea for a private property owner to discourage the public from crossing over land where no easement rights have been established...
The shoreline easement has been on the books a long time to keep people from fencing off and eliminating ocean access where they have been fishing/recreation for generations. The State of Hawaii is trying with the regs through the County to make shoreline available for all. There are places on the West side where you cant even build within 500' of the shore.
Where is Dlnragent ????
Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 217-7578
http://bluewaterpm.125mb.com/index.html
"We help make building your dream home a reality"
thanks, Cat.
The part of my post that you quoted was meant to apply to OTHER kinds of private property, not oceanfront. I definitely understand the public interest in maintaining this access.
sbaker, I really agree with Cat's suggestions that you embrace the access and the visitors. Otherwise you run the risk of having a huge amount of resentment aimed at you. Huge. And some of that resentment may become manifested in unpleasant ways.
If your property becomes subject to theft and vandalism due to such resentment -- wouldn't that negatively impact insurance premiums?
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Thanks for the opinions, advice and information. We certainly do not intend to fight anything. We are trying to find the truth, and documentation. Unfortunately the person at the Planning dept. could not explain how the access determination was made - i.e. what existing property restrictions protect public access.
The neighbor's advice was added to show the diversity of opinions.
We are concerned about insurance, because State Farm, who insured our homes in Arizona has already told us that they will not insure our ocean front home. The neighbor's input included information from her insurance company.
Again, we are looking for subdivision specific documentation about shoreline access.
Mahalo.
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quote:
..We are trying to find the truth, and documentation. Unfortunately the person at the Planning dept. could not explain how the access determination was made - i.e. what existing property restrictions protect public access...
Did you speak directly with Larry Brown at Planning? He has worked with the shoreline for years and he is a resident down there on Kaloli Point. He may be able to help you both ways. Also try Walter Bell in HPP.
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Walter is witht he HPP Neighborhood Watch, also for any documentation ?? check with Bobbi at the Hui (community center office) off of Makuu between 17th & 18th. there are many ways shoreline access has been handled, (a walk along the shoreline is fun, and will give you many ideas for how to address this... if you want to go on others shoreline easement...) Insurance co. have many other things to worry about on beachfront land, inc. wave & storm damage & shoreline undermining... (you already have the liability, and signage does not eliminate your liability....). It is best to try & work with all of your new neighbors, even the fishers. (talk story with some of the fishers, most are neighbors)
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I have a question regarding this:
“... the applicant shall provide lateral public access along the 60-foot wide portion of the Shoreline Setback Area along the top of the sea cliff.”
I read this to mean that the first 60' from the water (cliff) is public. Does this apply to every cliff area?
I am happy to see access addressed by the county. While on Kauai a few years ago I found the lack of shoreline access in some areas to be really aggravating, to say the least. Sure, you are free to walk along the beach, you are just not able to get there.
IMHO it should have been required that every oceanfront lot include lateral public access to the beach.
Jerry
Art and Orchids B&B
http://www.artandorchids.com
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KathyH - we are about half way between Paradise and Kololi.
I'm not proposing anything. Clearly the County thinks it is legal for them to impose this condition, and of course we will comply.
The setback and public access requirement were not mentioned or disclosed at purchase of the property.
The concept of pre-existing constraints is exactly the point of my inquiry. Certainly other land owners must have the same constraints for HPP ocean front properties. It is peculiar that no one, including neighbors seems to have knowledge of the access requirements.
