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I'm new to HPP and was just wondering if I could get a simple explanation about our "private roads". Just saw an issue about a private road on Oahu and got me thinking about our roads in HPP and probably other sub divisions too.
Why are the roads in HPP private? Anyone can drive on the roads so they don't feel very private.
How do the roads become public and to be maintained by the county or city?
How do we benefit by having private roads?
Why are there so many gravel roads when the road paving project was supposed to be complete in 2007?
Thanks
Mjolinar
Mjolinar
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I don't live in HPP, but as you mentioned, many of the issues you raised are common to most of the Puna subdivisions, so let me take the first crack at this. But let me start by saying if you're expecting logic or fairness on this issue, you're going to be sadly disappointed.
The subdivision roads are privately owned, publicly accessible roads because way-back-when the County figured that no one would ever live here, so they approved these developments without requiring that the roads meet county standards. The window to make them gated roads has closed. And yes, police can pursue you on the private roads and can issue tickets on them (in most cases).
Roads must be brought up to County standards before they can be considered for County acquisition. However, the County doesn't have enough money to handle all the obligations it already has, so there is no incentive to take on new obligations, like roads. And its a moot point because most subdivisions don't have the funds to being the roads into compliance anyway...
How do we benefit by having private roads? We don't (tho some may argue we benefit since our property prices are lower due to the substandard nature of our roads)
As to your final question, I'll leave that to someone with more HPP-specific knowledge. I will say, however, that in my experience HPP's roads are better than most of the subdivisions I've visited.
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The main things that get to me are;
1. How can you enforce a "public right of way traffic law" on a "Private road"
2. If all of the roads are held in fractional ownership by the lot owners, how can you restrict my use of an ATV on a road that I own?
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Roads must be brought up to County standards before they can be considered for County acquisition
The best part is: many "private" roads are narrower than the County-required minimum, therefore they effectively cannot ever be brought "up to spec".
approved these developments without requiring that the roads meet county standards
Approved with requirement, but requirement not enforced. County basically accepted a promise which turned out to be written in crayons on some old newspaper. (The law requiring "pavement before final subdivision plat approval" pre-dates these subdivisions.)
police can pursue you on the private roads and can issue tickets on them
Lingle "clarified" the jurisdiction, however, nobody has tested this in court, especially where a landowner is involved.
how can you restrict my use of an ATV on a road that I own?
This one is my favorite. As far as I'm concerned, the fractional interest makes the road legally equivalent to sitting in your driveway (private property). If visiting another subdivision, you become a "member of the public", entitled to travel on those roads "open to the public", but since they are not actual "public roads", it's not clear whether any legal restrictions can be applied -- most traffic regulations apply to "a public street or highway", need to carefully read the County Code (and Lingle's "clarification") to see if they intersect.
In most cases it's academic; I've only seen HPD on my "private" roads once, and they weren't making traffic stops...
Find a copy of "Land and Power in Hawaii", there's a short chapter about the Big Island spec subdivisions which explains the process.
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One more: the exact situation depends on the specific subdivision. Some "road-shaped lots" are fractionally owned by the landowners directly; others are owned by their respective Association. In the second case it could be argued that you are "the public" even if you are a lot owner whose dues are current.
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There are about 60 years of history to the HPP road issue. The county council approved all these substandard subdivisions for their buddy's. Then changed the road standard after the fact, so they wouldn't have to accept the road ( both I think could be used against them in court). And since the state never came up with a firm decision on the public/private roads in limbo thing. so the Hilo politicos use the grey area to siphon money and take no responsibility
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Best part: due to the perceived "cheap land/low taxes" deal, complaining about the "substandard roads/lack of infrastructure" is considered rude -- if you didn't want that, you shouldn't have moved there.
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why is it rude to complain ? HPP has high mandatory fees for maintenance of the roads . I really think it is "rude" to tell folks "if you dont like it move" . people have a right to speak up and should not be told to get out just because they have something to say.
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I don't think anyone is saying you should move, but anyone looking at moving in to these subdivisions should do their due diligence and make sure they know what they are getting in to. If you are looking in Leilani within a mile or so of PGV, you might want to seriously consider whether you want to be that close to a potential drilling site that might also increase your H2S exposure. For all subs with 'private' roads, consider whether the road conditions and maintenance schedules are going to be acceptable or whether you can adapt yourself to accept them. You can try to change the current situation, but be prepared for a lot of resistance to the status quo for various reasons (some like it that way, some don't want to pay more, and the county is unlikely to all of a sudden take on a large responsibility it can't afford). Honestly I wouldn't mind the "high" mandatory fees if they came with good roads like HPP (if you think HPP's roads are bad, drive around HA, ER or FF!)
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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it is "rude" to tell folks "if you dont like it move"
It's also "realistic", and it has definite "closure".
People have been arguing about the roads for decades. Anyone who is affected by these issues is more than welcome to continue the argument, but only Pele can settle it, it's more than clear that County, State, and the various Associations are simply not going to do so.
