Hawaii history and cannibalism

[TomK]

I've stayed out of the current Hawaiians-Only election thread because I think it is far too divisive, but there was a comment there tonight I find very disturbing. I wonder if someone can clarify what was meant.

Pahoated wrote:

"This is a continuing problem with white people never understanding the depths of the Hawaiian culture. It was a civilization, not tribes, not primitives, not savages, not cannibals, although they did eat human parts."

Given the author, I'll ignore the blatant racism, but can someone explain to me how eating human parts is not cannibalism?

[dmbwest]

Dear Tom,

It's apparent that both Ted and Gypsy get off on cowardly, tossing their 'grenades' into various discussions with ZERO intent on follow up.

Don't ever expect an explanation from these 2, (blanks)

aloha,
pog

[TomK]

Thanks, Pog. So perhaps I can relax and all those people that keep disappearing in Puna according to Nixle aren't being eaten by Ted. []

But still would like a proper answer. Dakine seems to have no problem with PT's quote either so a justification of eating human parts from either is needed. We live in a civilized place and time, but some seem to want to return to a very disturbing and violent time, at least according to PT.

Gypsy? A particularly unintelligent troll.

[Bullwinkle]

A basic search returned this from KCC much more info at the link



http://apdl.kcc.hawaii.edu/oahu/stories/...illing.htm

3. Taputapuatea

The practice of human sacrifice is said to have been brought to Hawai'i by the priest Pa'ao, who came from Wawau (Borabora) and 'Upolu (Taha'a ), two islands near Ra'iatea in Tahiti Nui. (Thrum More Hawaiian Folk Tales 46-52; Kamakau Tales 3-5, 97-100; Pukui Folktales 68-73). Pa'ao was notorious for his cruelty. He was a priest of Ku, the war god; his brother Lonopele was a priest of Lono (Tahitian Ro'o), the agricultural god. Both had farm lands, rich in sweet potato, taro, and banana. One day, Lonopele accused Pa'ao's son of stealing fruits from his land; Pa'ao denied the accusation and offered to cut open the stomach of his son to search for evidence to settle the dispute. Lonopele declined to pursue the case, but Pa'ao, incensed by the accusation, cut open his son anyway, and found nothing. He swore revenge against his brother for his son's death. He built a canoe to leave his homeland and placed a kapu on the canoe. When his brother's son came by and slapped the side of the canoe, Pa'ao had him put to death for breaking the kapu. Pa'ao then departed for Hawai'i. Lonopele sent stormy winds to sink his brother's canoe, but Pa'ao was saved by two fish­the 'opelu and the aku, which calmed the seas. (These two fish became sacred to his family, kapu during their spawning seasons; at the lifting of the kapu on aku fishing toward the end of Makahiki festival, the eye of an aku fish was eaten along with the eye of a human sacrifice.)

Pa'ao landed on Hawai'i Island and founded three heiau­Waha'ula in the district of Puna, Mo'okini in Kohala, and Hikiau in Kealakekua Bay, Kona. All three heiau were luakini, where human sacrifice was practiced.

[bystander]

From what I have observed, Ted doesn't just make things up. He repeats what he has heard before be it the truth or not. In this case he is correct. I too have read and heard that the Hawaiians practiced a form of endocannibalism. This is the eating of human flesh or parts not for food but for ritual purposes.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

can someone explain to me how eating human parts is not cannibalism?

I would compare it to a "vegetarian" who occasionally eats meat. Most vegetarians would not consider someone snacking on smoked barbecue ribs wrapped in bacon a fellow vegetarian. Same with cannibals or "non-cannibals" who believe eating some human parts is not cannibalism.

Now as to cannibalism in the islands, ted is also incorrect about his assessment about Hawaiian civilization. There are four stages in human society:

Band
Tribe
Chiefdom
State

For ted to say Hawaii was a civilization and therefore no cannibalism existed (except snacking), it would require the compression of 1000 years of history into a one-size-fits-all explanation for the last millennium.
There was cannibalism in the islands, although not recently when Hawaii had entered a late chiefdom, early state period. This is no different from many other cultures and races. Cannibalism is not unique to specific cultures, it is something that can occur at an early point of development in any human society. It has been discovered all around the world by anthropologists from tens of thousands of years ago, right up to the 20th century in New Guinea.

[kimo wires]

Didn't they eat Captain Cooke?
I remember in My Hawaiian History class the Kahuna/Teacher ,jokingly,referred to it as the first Cooke out.

[Bullwinkle]

"discovered all around the world by anthropologists from tens of thousands of years ago, right up to the 20th century in New Guinea."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer

[shockwave rider]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo wires

Didn't they eat Captain Cooke?
I remember in My Hawaiian History class the Kahuna/Teacher ,jokingly,referred to it as the first Cooke out.

---

The Hawaiians actually treated Cook's body with respect, according to the Hawaiian burial traditions. The mana was considered to be in the bones, so the bodies of high ranking individuals were cooked to remove the insignificant flesh, before preparing the all important bones for their final resting place by wrapping them in kapa. (In fact someone recently applied for permits to do traditional Hawaiian burials.) Cook's hands were removed and packed with salt and his bones were being in the process of having the flesh removed when his men retrieved them. Not understanding Hawaiian burial practices they returned home to claim they saved Cook from being eaten after his death. What they did get back was packed into a chest and sunk in Kealekekua Bay somewhere, someday we will probably see someone selling what they claim is his skull on Ebay.

The Hawaiians did sacrifice humans, usually prisoners of war, but also members of the lowest class and people who broke important kapus, but there is very little credible evidence of cannibalism, and that evidence mostly points to what bystander refereed to as endocannibalism, which has occurred in many different cultures across human history.

It seems like human sacrifice and cannibalism get lumped together in people's minds, causing confusion. There are thousands of pages of documentation of the pre contact ways and rituals written by the first generation of literate Hawaiians, who wrote down what they learned from those still living who had experienced pre contact Hawaii, awaiting translation in the Bishop Museum archives. As those documents get translated we will get a better picture of what life was really like then.

[Bullwinkle]

from the KCC article: n Ruling Chiefs of Hawai'i, Kamakau gives a native account of what happened to the remains of Captain Cook. It was customary in traditional times to clean the flesh from the bones of a deceased relative or a powerful enemy and keep the bones, which contained the mana of the person. Kamakau writes: "Then they stripped the flesh from the bones of Lono [i.e., Cook]. The palms of the hands and the intestines were kept; the remains were consumed with fire. The bones Kalani'opu'u was kind enough to give to the strangers on board the ship, but some were saved by the kahunas and worshiped" (103). Some of Cook's men assumed mistakenly that because only the bones were returned, the rest of the body had been eaten; so spread the rumor that Captain Cook was a victim of cannibalism. Ka Mooolelo Hawaii, a native history collected by Hawaiian students at the Lahainaluna Seminary (1838), gives an even more graphic account of Cook's fate. Some inadvertent cannibalism is attributed to the folly of youth:

...they took Cook's corpse with them and those of four men who had died with him up to Ka'awaloa.

Then Kalani'opu'u sacrificed Cook; and when he had done so he stripped the flesh off the bones and the hand (palm) and the intestines­the latter for making a kind of cord.

They burned his flesh. The intestines were mistakenly eaten by some boys, Kupa, Moho'ole, and Kaiwikoko'ole. They thought they were eating dog intestines. Some of the bones were returned to the vessel. Some were kept and worshiped by the priest. (Kahananui, 174-175)