Should UH manage Mauna Kea's summit?

[TomK]

Just read an interesting article in the Honolulu Civil Beat:

http://www.civilbeat.org/2018/01/should-...ea-summit/

There's a proposal to create some sort of new agency, i.e., The Mauna Kea Management Authority, and a possible negotiation of rents for the observatories. I will remind you that the observatories already pay rent in kind in terms of observing time which costs them millions of dollars a year, most of which goes towards education. I'm not willing to entertain the $1 a year rent argument unless someone can really make a good point.

I'm not against this idea in principle, but if this is feasible, there's a negotiation of rents that currently goes into education and my hope it doesn't end in the hands of a corrupt organization that's only in it for the money. And, let's make sure the new organization is competent before they receive funding from the observatories and have an agreement up-front as to where the rent money goes. If a substantial amount goes to OHA, forget it.

That's my opinion. Any thoughts?

[geochem]

But TomK, this is what this whole TMT dustup is all about. With the current rental agreements with the observatories, OHA doesn't get it's 20% cut on the rent. I've been peripherally involved in several situations where in-kind payment for use of State land was nixed because it would deny OHA their cut. I don't understand how that arrangement is constitutional - it's just a "legalized" form of Ethno-Extortion. It wouldn't be so disgusting if OHA was actually using the money for the purposes that were claimed to be the priority when OHA was established. "In Hawaiiland we're all equal, just some are more equal than others..."

That is what is driving this bill - and, if it passes, it will pretty much decimate the astronomy research program at UH while significantly decreasing the extramural funding support coming into the UH that, in many ways, supports the entire teaching program. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't being offered as "the deal" to allow the TMT to go forward.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

my hope it doesn't end in the hands of a corrupt organization
...
it's just a "legalized" form of Ethno-Extortion

Yes and yes.
Before OHA gets involved in some form of management on Mauna Kea, we should first ask the question can OHA ever manage OHA?

Percentage change in the level of glyphosate, an herbicide, in Americans’ urine since 1993 : +1,200. Harper's Index

[TomK]

geochem - completely agree.

I just had a look at the comments for the article. One of them struck me from "Fumanchew".

"The UH should never have been granted management of Mauna Kea. They may have the academic resources to collect historical and scientific data at the site’s summit but they have no soul in it. In 2015 while riding a motorcycle from Hilo to Kohala at night and thru heavy fog I inadvertently took the road that led to the Mauna Kea visitors facility. I was shocked to hear loud music and found the area packed with parked cars and mini tour buses. The people there were dancing and drinking, having a blast. It was quite a contrast to the tent city of TMT protesters I rode past earlier in the day along the roadside near Honokaa. While heading back out to the saddle road another mini tour bus turned onto the Mauna Kea access road coming from the Kona direction. There is no way as a native Hawaiian with roots in Kohala, I or my family will support any development on Mauna Kea without a change in the way it is managed and more importantly who it is managed by."

I have no idea how you could possibly "inadvertently" end up driving to the VIS from the Saddle Road without knowing you're doing so, even in thick fog. It's a 90-degree turn and soon goes uphill very quickly on a much narrower road. It means the rest of the comment is doubtful at best and another example of the untruthful arguments we keep hearing about the observatories.

Oh, BTW, I've never seen people dance and drink at the VIS.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

while riding a motorcycle... at night and thru heavy fog I inadvertently took the road that led...

It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call... the Twilight Zone.

Percentage change in the level of glyphosate, an herbicide, in Americans’ urine since 1993 : +1,200. Harper's Index

[MarkD]

I have little knowledge of Mauna Kea's management issues; let me just pose a few observations as how some of us uninformed have viewed the matter over the decades

The astronomers just want to do their science quietly, without disruption. They have probably found the visitors to Mauna Kea mostly a nuisance: Looking for restrooms, getting stuck on the side of the road in the snow, generally driving poorly on the road, some times getting ill and needed medical help. And sometimes, on a good skiing day, too many people on the mountain, disrupting traffic.

The visitors mostly just want to drive up for a short visit--the elevation is taxing--and return downhill. Except for the hardcore skiers (and good skiing days are rare.)

Up until a few years ago, when there were not that many visitors, all this probably all worked fairly tolerably (for the astronomers).

Now there are more visitors. And native Hawaiians agitated about who is walking where (encroachment on special areas). And perhaps some environmentalists agitated about who is walking where (encroachment on special areas).

Too many visitors now and other people claiming needs for resource protection. So there will be gates and roaming guards and visitor restrictions. And eventual entry fees. And eventual designation of the mountain top (or further designation) as a park.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the astronomers or the University of Hawaii. At Volcanoes National Park there are state and federal forestry research facilities set off on their own 3/4 mile from the Volcano House. None of this has anything to do with park entrance or policies. Shouldn't Mauna Kea Management and astronomy be separate?

[rainyjim]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

I have little knowledge of Mauna Kea's management issues...

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It's not only you...
For all the times I have heard/seen Mauna Kea's 'mismanagement' brought up I have never actually heard any specifics. I can only assume that is because it isn't being mismanaged. I would appreciate if anyone was able to direct me toward a list of grievances.

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

Shouldn't Mauna Kea Management and astronomy be separate?

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I think it already is with the exception that the telescopes lease from UH/DLNR (maybe Tom could elaborate on the exact nature of this relationship or help provide the sources to do so; beyond trading the $1/y rent for observation time).

I have always been a bit dumbfounded that anyone can just drive right up to these high-tech facilities and walk around without any supervision.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

dumbfounded that anyone can just drive right up to these high-tech facilities... without any supervision.

On of my first jobs on Maui was with a fire protection company. We got in everywhere. The first few months on the job was one revelation after another how easy it was to enter high security and "protected" facilities. A few examples:

* Bank - had a locked swinging half door between the lobby and entry to teller areas and offices. It had a keypad on the outside requiring you input the code to unlock. Or... reach over the door and open using the inside handle.

* Unnamed Airline - left pallets stacked 4 or 5 feet high with money (in unmarked metal boxes) outside the warehouse so it was easy for Loomis Fargo to load into their trucks.

* Police Department - walk down long hallway to an officer sitting behind a thick bullet proof glass window. Entry was through a steel bank vault type door. Or... turn right 20 feet before all of that, walk down a short hallway, and enter through an unlocked, unmarked normal door straight into the nerve center of the department, computers, private offices etc.

Those are some medium security examples.

Percentage change in the level of glyphosate, an herbicide, in Americans’ urine since 1993 : +1,200. Harper's Index

[Kapoho Joe]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

Too many visitors now and other people claiming needs for resource protection. So there will be gates and roaming guards and visitor restrictions. And eventual entry fees. And eventual designation of the mountain top (or further designation) as a park.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the astronomers or the University of Hawaii. At Volcanoes National Park there are state and federal forestry research facilities set off on their own 3/4 mile from the Volcano House. None of this has anything to do with park entrance or policies. Shouldn't Mauna Kea Management and astronomy be separate?

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You answered your own question imo, Mark. You speak of "Eventual entry fees" and "Eventual designation...as a park", but we aren't there yet. I for one would like the Visitors Center to be as far as you go without a 'special use permit'.

[TomK]

rainyjim - the land is owned by the state. The scientific reserve on top of Mauna Kea is leased to UH and they manage it. UH, in turn, subleases to the observatories. UH have set up the Office of Mauna Kea Management (OMKM) which is the body that actually manages the area. OMKM is not run by the observatories, it is a separate organization and so in that sense, the management of Mauna Kea and astronomy is already separate.

OMKM - http://www.malamamaunakea.org/