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Aloha! I am looking at a house that I would want to bring up to code. It has no permits and temporary power.
Has anyone done this or have any experience? I am reaching out because after multiple trips to the planning dept, engineering dept there is still no one there. I have called and emailed as well.
I know that we need to install a septic system. But I am unsure of what it will take to get the plumbing, building, and electrical permits.
The owners say they have the original building plans.
The house seems to be solidly built.
Thank you in advance for any ideas!
Its a colorful life!
Its a colorful life!
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I hope that as you said you are only "looking" at this house and have not actually purchased it yet.
The owners are probably offering the house at what seems to be a very reasonable price, but as you have seen from your multiple trips to the County offices, the permitting process will be a nightmare. These County officials have absolutely no incentive to assist you and in many cases will do all they can to block your efforts.
My advice to you is to ask the present owners to get the house officially permitted (in writing.) If they are willing to to this, an increase in the asking price will be warranted. If they are unwilling to do this, walk away.
This house could very well be a can of worms hidden deep inside Pandora's Box.
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I hope they didn't put up the drywall already...
I have heard that it's simply a matter of finding a plumber and an electrician who will sign off on work they did not perform. When this proves impossible, "all you gotta do is" rip everything out and start over with valid permits and licensed contractors -- you can always just move back to the mainland after you run out of money. (I keep a high-limit credit card at zero balance for this purpose, just in case.)
I'm often struck by the irony, here: a finaled house is worth more for tax purposes, and property taxes are 75% of County revenue, so it seems like it would be in everyone's best interest to expedite the process. There is, however, substantial "soft value" in allowing people to live unpermitted: they won't complain (or even assert their rights) for fear of retaliation. Cheaper and more effective than adding police, right?
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We purchased a vacation rental home that was advertised as permitted, only to discover that later improvements did not have permits. I won't say undergoing the "as built" permitting process was a totally hellish experience, but it will be a test of your patience, temper, flexibility, endurance and finances. Getting "as built" permitting means throwing yourself on the mercy of:
1) plumbers, electricians, surveyors and/or engineers/architects who may be willing to accept your cash and sign off on things that may or may not be right and/or who may require you to make unnecessary costly changes because they know you're desperate
2) inspectors who may or may not accept these certifications or who may (read: probably will) require you to make additional changes (even after previous inspectors said everything else was fine)
3) County and State employees who will be able to find no records of previous approved plans (what are the odds that there were no records of the cesspools on both our actually "fully permitted" residence and "originally fully permitted" vacation rental properties). And it took almost 3 years to untangle the mess created when a previous owner changed the property line between the two adjacent lots we purchased (he got the change approved by the county but never finalized with the State Land Court).
Whatever money you save in the purchase price, you'll more than pay when you bring it up to code with legal status. My advice: walk away.
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no records of previous approved plans (what are the odds that there were no records of the cesspools on both our actually "fully permitted" residence
I bought a lot with an approved, permitted cesspool. The owners never built a house & the property was vacant for 15 years. I needed to bring in a dozer, but wanted to avoid the cesspool. I contacted the County who claimed there were no records in their file for my lot concerning a cesspool.
The dozer ripped off the concrete cover leaving a deep hole exposed.
A few years later, when I had another question about the lot I called the same department, and mentioned I knew there was no record of the cesspool, when the employee stopped me and said, “what do you mean, we have all the permit information right here, as well as a map of its location.”
I wish he had answered the phone the first time I called.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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No permits and temporary power means you are looking at buying land with an uninsurable liability on it. The house may appear solidly built but as far as the county is concerned it might as well be a kid's treehouse until proven otherwise.
I had considered purchasing a permitted residence with unpermitted additions. I think that was something I could potentially deal with. I had even considered purchasing land with a fully unpermitted living structure on it, but I understood going into it that I was really just buying land and liability.
In the end we kept shopping and determined the course of least resistance was to not try to un-unpermit an unpermitted home. I would still consider buying property with an unpermitted dwelling on it, but only as a stepping stone to building something that could be insured and/or resold without the hassles you are currently going through. We used to own a nice lot with a shipping container on it for the same purpose, though we ultimately decided to go the conventional route.
Whatever you do, best of luck, and I hope you keep us updated.
Posts: 34
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Joined: Apr 2014
Thank you everyone for your insight on this! No, we have not purchased this house yet.
All of that sounds like more headache than we want to go through. Its not that good of a deal to start with so seems not worth it.
I did find out that it could potentially be insured, but would be expensive.
After speaking to plumbers and electricians, they advise to run away as what they would require would be quite time and money consuming.
Again, thanks for your thoughts!
Aloha,
Laura
Its a colorful life!
Its a colorful life!
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I'm selling my small house in HPP. 2BR, 1 B, no headaches.
spiritdeer@yahoo.com
1 island 2 another
1 island 2 another
