Septic tanks - permits

[A friend indeed]

Is it possible to get a permit strictly for a septic system, without having other plans and permits?  As I start the process to construct, I would like this the first thing done, along with a free standing "bathroom".  I suppose I would need all the plans, etc drawn for this bathroom?  Any suggestions?  I am looking at getting a currently unpermitted basic structure updated and permitted, along with some additional square footage.

[Seeb-2]

Is it possible to get a permit strictly for a septic system, without having other plans and permits?  As I start the process to construct, I would like this the first thing done, along with a free standing "bathroom".  I suppose I would need all the plans, etc drawn for this bathroom?  Any suggestions?  I am looking at getting a currently unpermitted basic structure updated and permitted, along with some additional square footage.

Easiest is just to get a permit for the smallest HPM package “ Pilikai” I think, it’s just one room and a bathroom. Then you got a permitted house to get electric and home owners tax rate. Hey

[A friend indeed]

I agree, and have looked into that possibility. HPM price is about $43K and, I am only guessing, but about another $25K for labor. The structure that is existing is well built and has about 400 square feet now, so would hate to lose that portion, nor do I want to pay for the additional square footage of an HPM. Looking for just a basic, 600 square feet or so for one person.

[kalakoa]

Every time this issue comes up I want to write a book...

There are basically two options: fully permitted, or fully unpermitted. County might as-built the existing structure and allow you to obtain additional permits for the septic and associated plumbing ... or they might not, but once you ask, you're on the hook forever. Note that 400sf does not meet the minimum for a "house", you will have to frame new construction with your as-built. Permits alone will take longer than six months, County doesn't like that sort of thing.

Simplest way to get permitted moving forward is exactly what Seeb suggests: get the smallest HPM kit home, strip the existing structure of any plumbing/electrical and claim that it's an "accessory" (under 600sf on ag-zoned land), then maybe span a carport between the kit home and the structure after everything is finaled. Even with the standard kit home, be very very careful, County has a way of knowing exactly how many changes and re-inspections you can tolerate, and they need you to prove that you'll be able to afford to live here. Easier for them if you go broke and leave behind a half-built structure, that way you'll never collect benefits or demand services.

The other way is to accept your new unpermitted life, and find "a guy" who will install a septic tank for cash (or do it yourself). Temporary grid power requires that you pull permits, so figure on building an off-grid solar system -- again, find "a guy" who will do it for cash, or do it yourself. By law, no licensed plumber/electrician is allowed to touch your unpermitted project. Maybe $20-30K depending how many panels and who installs it for you.

Permits not required for resident homeowner status. Lots created after 1976 subject to additional farm dwelling requirements. Good luck.

[A friend indeed]

Thanks for the input !. I do not need, nor expect ever to have to get any "benefits". I cooed easily expose any existing electrical, really there is none, and there is no plumbing now. I have the ability to pay in full any improvements. I suppose I could hire a qualified architect to design a addition incorporating the existing square footage. I am not looking to hook up to electricity, instead purchasing a solar system. I would prefer a septic system so that down the road (long after I am six feet under, in 2050 it does not have to be added, and is on the record as having a septic system. (my most recent mainland home was on a fully functioning septic system that was 40 years old). SO what you are telling me is that If I wanted a septic system, I need to have everything else permitted and on record? So if I wanted a ag shed with a functioning bathroom, it is not possible?

[kalakoa]

If you want any permits, everything must be permitted, where "everything" is "whatever County says". If you need bank financing or insurance, then you do whatever it takes to reach final inspection, even if it's stupid.

The pieces don't "require" permits. Chem-Tainer sells septic tanks to anyone with money. Machine operators will dig holes for money. The necessary plumbing is sold for money. Same thing with solar panels, batteries, roofing, framing, concrete. None of those suppliers will ask you about your permits.

If your unpermitted project is visible from the road, or the neighbors complain enough, then County might issue a "red tag" and demand that you cease all work. I know of at least one instance where there was zero follow-up after the red tag.

A permitted 400sf "utility shed" with a septic system is probably possible under current codes, but you might need to hire a planning consultant who understands exactly how to design the project to fit those codes. A kit home that appears to be "regular residential" will be challenging enough.

The odds that County will decide to care about your permits are inversely proportional to the value of the land and its proximity to paved roads.

It's up to you to decide what you want to do with your life: build something and live on your land, or argue with County about planning/permitting issues. Again, bank financing forces this decision -- once it's "their" project, the things you want are secondary.

[Obie]

A septic permit is issued by the wastewater branch of the health dept. There is no requirement to have a building permit to get a septic permit.
Make sure your engineer sites it correctly in relation to your proposed building plans.

I have friend who bought a lot in HPP that has a septic and a well but no structures.

Paul Nash is the engineer I have used.

Atlas Engineering, LLC
P.O. Box 11188
Hilo, HI 96721
(808) 965-7350
(808) 965-9531 (fax)

[A friend indeed]

Obie...Thank you...that makes more more sense.....I am a retired banker...and have no need for any financing...... I just want a decent toilet while I decide what my future building plans are...I will live in the "shack" for a few months...but a toilet, not a porta potty must be there!

[kalakoa]

State issues permits for septic tanks, but County issues permits for the plumbing necessary to connect anything to that septic tank.

[Thronester]

2nd what obie says. I know of someone who did the same thing. I believe they submitted a to scale site plan along with paying the applicable permit fees and were all set. Your best bet is contacting an engineer to see if they’re comfortable with your plans.