EBT, WIC, Welfare, Oh My! Punafare?

[Hazen]

Aloha All!

Now this is not meant to be a negative post, though undoubtably many will post negatively, and some will be defensive.

I am just a little curious as to opinions on the prevalance and ubiquity of livin' on the "dole" here in Puna. I find myself developing opinions i am suspect of and would like to educate myself further.

I personally have no experience with any type of gov't aid that one might need to apply for. Seems like most people in Pahoa are on food stamps, and everytime i grocery-store shop people seem equally likely to pay for food w/ an EBT card as money. This is not something is saw outside of poorer neighborhoods on the mainland. Why is it so different here?

I in am in no way undermining the need or importance of food stamps, welfare, diability, state healthcare, or unemployement benefits. I know many who in my opinion need more help.

I have always been prejudiced against those who blame "welfare leeches" for gov't problems. Many things have been denied many a needy soul in the past, many gross abuses have been committed also.

Here I actually see a lot of abuse. Several people I know get benefits for "disabilities", i.e. i went to a doctor and got them to diagnose me as unable to work, for some absolutely fictional mental or physical ailment. Many of these are very young and have no debt or cost of living.

I also know as many here who have real diabilities and could use more help. My father is a retired cop, has a serious head injury and got no aid other than police benefits. Which halved about a decade ago. I wonder now why we never applied for aid. We certainly could have used it. Though my Dad was never the type for charity, and he worked several jobs during his worst periods.
I wonder how this affects my views now.

I see a lot of good in the generosity that Puna presents, (i've been told Puna i one of the easiest places to get aid) for instance a family of seven who just moved here w/o much were told that they get extra benefits for 6 monthes after giving birth because they want mom home w/ the newborn. She was planning on working. This policy seems logical to me. Escpecially with five kids; it would seem the more time the parents spend with them the better. It will probably cost society much less in the long run for six monthes of cash benefits than if the baby was negelected in any way. I am in no way undermining the amazing efforts some have invested in similair situations, working several jobs and long hours as single parents, etc. etc. These trials have been overcome in noble ways by many a person and help shape our society. These adversities make us stronger, but i wonder if those who have endured them wouldn't have preferred a little more assistance? How would it have affected them and their children?

I have been told one is limited to 5 years of welfare here, all at once or in chunks, over ones lifetime. This seems reasonable. I can't imagine that people constantly falsify their job hunts, but i have been told of individuals who will change their clothes and go ungroomed to the unemployement office whenever check time comes around!

It seems to me that any gov't healthcare acts to prevent more costs down the line when people end up in bad health and need lifelong care. Simple prophealatic medicine, healthcare, and (eek!) birthcontrol can save society a lot.

But foodstamps? What constitutes need? Some believe "Get it, while the gettin's good". Others asy private charities can fill the need. If you pay taxes you might as well collect any bennies you can?

I personally suspect that food prices here are artificially high (especially at places like the Pahoa Natch) because of the diposable income some have in the form of food stamps. Safeway heavily discounts meats at a certain time of the month because they want to empty up space for inventory so that when foodstamps get issued they're stocked up with new stuff.

I personally see a huge amount of non-governmental food aid around Puna. I personally stop on the side of the road to eat and pick guava, papaya, coconut/hapuia, kiawe berry, lilikoi, and avocados at least twice a week. I get jamaican lilikoi, mountain apples, prawns, jackfruit, and ulu when i go hiking. This isn't all i eat, but it substantially supplements my diet, it's free and healthy. Farmer's markets abound and are very socially responsible. Much produce ends up feeding the roaches and rats.

Is this just part of Puna, should I ignore it? I know tons of the literature i've read speaks of bohemians living off charity and sponsorship in Paris, LA, and New York. This seems a trend (at least in paris)that has been going on for centuries. Many i know have found ways to "beat" the system by either working under the table, sheltering their assets, selling things on the black market, or by outright fraud. Is this OK? Our gov't provides us with so much, but wastes so much too. I certainly would rather have Auntie buying short ribs, to grill on her new BBQ than have that money go to more "War on Terror" campaigns. How bout you? What's the deal?

So just my thoughts, i'm trying to be impartial and open-minded. I would appreciate it if we all stay as such.

I respect this forum and it's members and was curious as to their wisdoms.

Sincerely,

Hazen

[JerryCarr]

Hazen, I don't think your post is negative or judgemental at all. One big reason I can think of regarding the prevalence of assistance in Puna (and Hawaii in general) is the high cost of living. The states and the feds work in conjunction on most assistance programs and there are formulas that take the local cost of living into account. This in turn affects food assistance, rent assistance, etc. That said, there is also a strong state "generosity factor," i.e. the states do have the option to use their own funds to supplement the federal dole. The result is that assistance tends to be more generous and widespread in places like Wisconsin and Massachusetts (maybe Hawaii?) than places like Texas and Georgia. It all comes down to politics in that regard.

Aloha,
Jerry

[Rob L]

If you look at the census maps, Puna is about the poorest distrct in Hawai'i and has the highest unemployment.

Interestingly, on food stamps, the biggest advocate in Congress for this program is not the poor, but the agricultural lobby. Still, it seems like a good program. I would rather that some people abuse it than that anyone go hungry. An all-fruit diet is not very healthy. I think food is so costly because of transportation costs, not the availabiliy of food stamps.

Aloha,
Rob L

[loffelkopffl]

spend more on food and less on war,
8 billion a week currently on bush's failed oil war, think how many people that could feed, or house, or give health care to,,,,,

[Punamom]

Many people are truly misinformed about the welfare state.There was a hugh anti welfare propaganda champain going on several years ago that caused the reform but it was just a red herring coverup to hide gov. spending abuse and they needed more money for those black hawk toys or whatever.The welfare budget is small compared to other gov.(wasteful) spending.

Personally this is one of the reasons I like America because they have programs to fall back on if you ever need them I wish they had more.My sister lived in a foreign country and broke her leg she could not work and almost starved to death except for the charity of a few.So God Bless America and their social programs!

Yes Puna does have alot of folks on food stamps,and lots of poor folks, but where have you ever seen so many minimum wage jobs than here? Who is going to be able to live off of that? Also when they did the whole welfare reform thing, they made it easier for WORKING FAMILIES to get food stamps and healthcare.I think more families should take advantage of that.For the free health care I think a family of 4 can make up to 40k same with WIC and for foodstamps its like 30k a year so its pretty generous in what they call poor.(these are just ball park est).
Believe me I know folks on welfare and they barely get enough to live on.I mean hardly anything.the single druggie guy using his ebt card probably only gets 90 bucks a month in food stamps.
A family of 4 gets something like 500 cash and maybe 600 in food stamps.Try paying rent on that.So its not all, that people think it is and they give you so little folks almost have to cheat the system to survive (like having a job under the table).Heres a disparity the state pays a thousand dollars a month for a family to care for a foster child but expects a family of 4 to live on 500? Thats also big in Puna foster families and they usually get food stamps for the foster kids.
But there is some gross abuse I think you'll have that in any situtation.
I have 4 kids our food bill is like 800 a month I can't afford organic we eat lots of simple carbs because they are cheap fillers,steak is a treat so are certain veggies/fruits as they are usually more expensive than meat and everything I buy is on SALE.I really don't have the time luxury to go foraging in the forest for fruit and I would worry about getting shot at. so its not worth it to me.I only say this so you get an idea what families in BI are dealing with as far as costs of food.
You addressed many topics but folks on regular payrolls are taxed heavily for unemployment insurance its not charity.
I feel if you need them apply for them thats what they are for, you paid for it. If I wrecked my car I am going to file a claim thats what insurance is for.These programs are not forever anyway,I would not give them a second thought.
Disability is the same you pay for it in taxes. yes folks abuse it Partly due to unscrupulous doctors.But it is very hard to get.I hear they routinely decline every applicant and only folks who file an appeal actually get it.Maybe that will help your dad."The squeeky wheel gets the grease"

There is a hugh problem with food wastes and keeping prices high at the Farmers market but I guess they have to to be able to make a living.
FYI did you ever smell a rotting stench on the highway just past Keaau high school (heading to hilo) Thats because there are tons and tons of decomposing papayas that are dumped on Railroad ave. They throw beautiful fruit in there but the stench is sooo awful you can't get to the good stuff.What is that about?!! keeps the prices high I'd suspect.Even the market folks sell ripe fruit cheap when the market is closing for the day.You'd think they could just lower the price and sell out but nooo.I don't even want to talk about all the fruit I see rotting in peoples yards thats just sickening, then I have to pay 2 bucks or more a pound at the store.I hope this helps you get a better understanding,yes it is just Puna (in a way)
I would just ignore what you don't know the facts about and report the abuse you know of if it helps.
If I did'nt know for sure that republicans are not allowed to live in Puna I'd think you were one.hahahalol just kidding! Great topic!

[mella l]

Well I haven't been looking into this subject for quite some time but here are my thoughts.

Many US Service personnel and their families qualify for food stamps! They receive some housing subsidies but need food stamps! You know Army Navy, Air Force. Shameful.

In the past and I'd bet currently the farming industry is the biggest welfare recipient, hand outs go to US Farms, in the form of farm subsidies. And they don't want anyone to know how much and neither do their congress persons. Now we all must eat so some of the subsidies are necessary. But IMHO it is no longer necessary to subsidize angora sheep for WWI uniforms is it?

There is a huge debate going on right now to keep the numbers, states, and crops names numbers and dollars off the web in an organized site for all to see.

People need food and those not capable of feeding themselves or their children should be taken care of, but do the farmers who receive the vast majority of $$'s? Can't blame them for not self enforcing. From my view medical and food for the poorest is part of societies responsibility. Not paying service personnel living wages is despicable, and shameful IMHO.

We were a rich nation perhaps still are? and if there were just less greed, we would be even richer and be able to take care of the needy without whining about it, or giving it a second thought.

Don't mean to stir the pot just how I see it.

mella l

Edited by - mella l on 09/01/2006 06:45:25

[JerryCarr]

Given the high cost of living and the lack of good-paying jobs in Puna, the wonder is that MORE families are not getting some sort of assistance. Everyone who qualifies should get it, especially people who work and might assume they don't qualify as a result. Mella is right about the farm lobby's effectiveness in getting subsidies, most of which go to corporate farms and not family farms. There are abuses in any program, but one thing I know is that nobody is getting rich on disability or public assistance, and plenty of wealthy people and corporations are getting richer from the president's war in Iraq. There, I've said it. Cue the flamethrowers now, LOL.

Aloha,
Jerry

[Hazen]

No flamethrowers Jerry, I agree 100% with your opinions. Clearly no one is getting rich. Clearly there is a lack of a living wage. I can't imagine a single guy only gets $100 a month in food stamps! I could be wrong but this seems grossly inadequate. I certainly have no problem with the needy getting stamps. It's just that i see a whole lot of people forgoe employment, because they can life "for free" on benefits. If someone in your family works or is trying to work, i have no problem with benefits. It's the people i know who wouldn't consider working as an option when they can just collect that bother me. Someone driving around in a newer car than me, with a laptop, and a $200/week maryjane expense AND getting foodstamps/disability and maybe even working under the table is living beyond their means at the expense of others in my opinon.

BTW i worked on Nader's campaign in Florida in 2000!, same thing i told the cop who accused me of being an idealistic democrat when he pulled me over whilst driving a homeless guy to a shelter because my hispanic friend with a bandana on was sitting in the front seat.

[mella l]

Hazen perhaps these people that live the high life are the Trustafarians someone was speaking of? Playing both sides of the street as it were.

I understand for a hard working person trying to make ends meet and save a little for the future, seeing the new cars and the fancy stuff is hard to take. But just think it might just be a now thing and no building for a secure future and pacing themselves that is a prudent way of life.

I lived near as we called them in the old days slums, was there when the schools were integrated so poor kids could exposure to a valued education. The fancy cars that brought the kids to school were all their families had pretty literally. They all pitched in together to buy this fancy car, so they felt they fit in, and it was a status symbol. You can't fault them for wanting to fit in, to go styling, or for not having the for thought about the future, they needed education, self esteem is internal not external and that is another lesson that is learned. Soon the shiny fancy cars needed maintenance, and those lessons weren't a part of their communial understanding and so the cars sit in yards rotting as they don't run anymore. The next goal is a fancy car.

Ever heard the one about old money, the oldest generation made it the second generation protected it and the third generation spent it, LOL (Trustafarians LOL), except I've seen it happen in part of my family. Oh we were the poor relations not the spendthrifts though, hey one set of cousins ran the family business into the ground, with the fancy dog and pony shows, his and her sliver and gold mercedes, and on and on, oh well! LOL. Easy come easy go.

mella l

PS because the weather is so nice in Puna perhaps living conditions are easier for the poorer folks.

Edited by - mella l on 09/01/2006 11:24:16

[JerryCarr]

Mella has led us to a very important factor, I think, and that is the feeling in our society that the trappings of wealth are somehow equivalent to success and social acceptance. This not only affects low-income folks who may use poor judgement in their spending on cars or flashy clothes. It also applies to middle class families who feel like they have to take out home equity loans or heavy credit card debt to support a level of consumer spending that they could probably live comfortably without.

When my partner, Bear, and I worked in the corporate world in Atlanta, our peers were always saying, "Wow, man, y'all could surely afford a nicer car or a nicer house or a nicer suit than this," We just smiled and kept socking away savings and investments. When they started laying off baby boomer middle managers and forcing people to take early retirement, the same people understood. Now we are modestly comfortable in Hawaii and some of them are still trying to support families on state unemployment and facing real hardships. I don't blame them for their situation so much as pity them for accepting a societal value system that they were immersed in. Just MHO.

Aloha,
Jerry